Tommy Freeman: Lions, Saints and Never Giving Up

In this episode of Rugby Legends, Arthur Dickins is joined by Tommy Freeman, one of the most exciting backs in world rugby. Fresh from a remarkable rise that has taken him from academy rejection to the very pinnacle of the game, Tommy shares the lessons, setbacks and experiences that shaped his journey.

Tommy looks back on his early sporting life, from football and hockey to discovering rugby and eventually falling in love with the game. He opens up about being a late developer, struggling physically against bigger players, and the moments where frustration nearly led him to walk away from rugby altogether. His story is a powerful reminder that development is rarely linear and that patience can be one of the most valuable qualities a young athlete possesses.

The conversation explores Tommy's release from the Leicester Tigers academy, the move to Moulton College, and the opportunity that eventually opened the door at Northampton Saints. From fly-half to full-back and eventually the wing, Tommy explains how versatility became one of his biggest strengths and why modern rugby demands far more from wingers than simply finishing tries.

Tommy also reflects on life as a British & Irish Lion, playing in front of more than 100,000 fans at the Melbourne Cricket Ground, learning from some of the world's best players, and experiencing the unique culture that makes Lions tours so special. Alongside stories from the top level of the game, he shares practical advice on confidence, handling mistakes, preparation, resilience, and what it really takes to maximise your potential as a rugby player.

Whether you're a young player chasing your dream, a coach working with developing athletes, or simply a rugby fan, Tommy's story offers valuable lessons about perseverance, mindset, and making the most of every opportunity.

In this episode:

•  Why rugby beat football and hockey 
•  Growing up as a late developer 
•  The academy rejection that changed everything 
•  How Northampton Saints discovered him 
•  Finding his best position on the wing 
•  Advice for young wingers 
•  Lessons from Lions teammates 
•  Match-day routines and preparation 
•  Learning from mistakes under pressure 
•  What makes the British & Irish Lions special

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Transcript

Arthur 0:05

hi everyone. I'm Arthur Dickins and this is my Rugby Legends podcast. In each episode, I interview an amazing rugby player or coach to get their advice. In each episode, interview an amazing rugby player or coach to get their insight and advice for young rugby players just like me, who are keen to learn and get better. In this episode, I'm speaking with Tommy Freeman, the Northampton Saints, England, and Lions winger. Tommy is very big and very quick. He's made over a century of appearances for Northampton Saints and won the Premiership title in 2024. In the 2025 6 Nations, he became the first Englishman to score in every single round of the tournament, a remarkable feat, and that form earned him his starting place on the British and Irish Lions Tour of Australia last year. I hope you find Tommy's knowledge and wisdom as helpful as I did, enjoy Firstly, Tommy, I just want to say thanks so much for taking the time to be on podcast. I really appreciate it.

Tommy 1:03

No worries at all. Thanks for having me, Arthur.

Arthur 1:06

So firstly, Tommy, what other sports did you play growing up and at what age did you give them up for rugby?

Tommy 1:11

yeah, so I grew up playing football as a youngster. I'm sure most people do, don't they? and then when I went to Culford school, that was when football, they didn't do football, so we had hockey, cricket, rugby. so yeah, it was, that was the first time I was introduced to all those sports. but I, yeah, I fell in love with rugby, as soon as I played it. but also loved hockey, and yeah, played pretty well at hockey as well. So it got to about the age of 14 where they were like, you need to decide where you want to go. Do you want to go and play hockey or do you wanna play rugby? yeah, mum and dad probably had a bit of a fair say in that one as well. they would definitely prefer to watch rugby than hockey. yeah, that, that kind of made my mind up a little bit. But no, it was rugby all the time, I think. yeah, so it was about 14, 15 when the academy started coming into play is, when you forced for a decision. So yeah, rugby was the no-brainer.

Arthur 2:06

What position did you play in hockey?

Tommy 2:08

In hockey, I was right wing or striker. Yeah. Always scoring goals or trying to at least, yeah, it was boring. Other than that, defending wasn't really that, fun in hockey, is it? It's all about scoring goals. And similar in rugby, if I'm honest. You'd rather do that bit than, the defending bit.

Arthur 2:23

Yeah, and hockey as well, I like to play striker as well.

Tommy 2:26

Oh, nice. So you're the same then. Love scoring goals.

Arthur 2:29

Yeah, I love getting those tap ins,

Tommy 2:31

Exactly.

Arthur 2:32

Did you always play wing when you were younger at Culford?

Tommy 2:35

No, absolutely not. And I never thought I'd end up here either. I started at fly half, which I'm sure is the dream for most kids. yeah, I played fly half, till about U16s then left Culford, went to Moulton College, then got pushed out into the centres 'cause there was a pretty good 10 we had. then went, got pushed back to full back, and then eventually yeah, pushed out onto the wing. so yeah, I dunno if that's a compliment or not going back out the wing, having all the skills at 10 and full back and centre and stuff, and then getting pushed onto the wing. But, no, it is turned out all right. If I'm honest.

Arthur 3:15

Out of those positions, like which one was your favourite to play?

Tommy 3:19

as a kid I loved 10. obviously I think, yeah, trying to pull the strings and make others look good was, what I tried to do as a youngster. but I think as you grow up a little bit and, I, oh, it's tough now. Even so, like, I'm, playing around with Centre as well and being on the wing, you've got licences to do different stuff on the Wing. I think in today's game, I think it's not just about staying on your wing and being the quickest player. I think you've, got a licence to get off it and go and create something. So yeah, the wing's a lot of fun. a bit of free roaming, centres, there's obviously loads of cool stuff you can do in there, and you get a few more touches, but, yeah, growing up I definitely, I love playing ten. I have a joke with Richard Wigglesworth and say, one day I'll get back there. He said home game at Chinnor maybe, but that'll be as far as it goes.

Arthur 4:09

Yeah, I like to play Fly half as well.

Tommy 4:11

Oh, nice. Are you still playing there now?

Arthur 4:13

Yeah, no, still playing there for club and school, which is quite nice.

Tommy 4:16

If someone moves you, say No.

Arthur 4:18

I'll make sure.

Tommy 4:20

Nice.

Arthur 4:21

What made you choose rugby over these other sports?

Tommy 4:27

it's a good question. For me, it was never really the physical aspects of the game that I enjoyed. I was obviously very small growing up. I had two big brothers who were, had a growth spurt pretty early. They're both 6'1, 6'4, so they had the growth spurt pretty early, and I was still pretty small, so the physical side of the game didn't appeal to me, but I just think it was the evasive game. I think obviously it's a good group of lads, rugby, you're pretty close all the time. and I just think that com camaraderie and stuff as a team and as a team game, I think, yeah, you're obviously putting your bodies on the line for each other at the end of the day. And I know it hurts, but that feeling afterwards, there's, no better feeling when you've had a good win and you've worked hard for it.

Arthur 5:13

A hundred percent and get in the bath.

Tommy 5:15

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. That's crucial.

Arthur 5:19

what age were you like when you turned your height now? What age were you?

Tommy 5:23

So I was in my second year of sixth form, so I was probably about 5'7 or 5'8 in my lower sixth, so that's year 12. And then that summer to going into year 13 was when I just shot up. I was a bit lanky, I was probably about 83kg 6'2 or a little bit shorter. But yeah, it was that year, so it was bound to happen. But yeah, it was a little bit late that then I had hoped I'd have probably liked to have been a bit more physical and challenged the bigger boys at school. But, no, eventually it took it's turn.

Arthur 5:58

How do you like deal with being such like a late developer? did you have any moments you wanted to give up?

Tommy 6:03

Oh God, yeah. a hundred percent. I remember there was late nights going down to Leicester Tigers training. Obviously being smaller, I felt like I had the attributes from a skillset point of view, and bringing others into the game. But yeah, as soon as you, I either broke the line or, someone was running directly at me, it was, yeah, I was getting caught up with pretty quickly or, getting put on my back really. yeah, there was a lot of difficult conversations. I had fell out of love with the game, but mum was pretty persistent to keep me turning up every week, and she just knew the growth spurt was gonna come. And obviously having two older brothers who were, towering above me, they knew it was gonna happen at some point. yeah, thank, thanks to them. I stuck with it.

Arthur 6:47

Yeah, and I'm the smallest side of the game, but my brother's about 5'8, so hopefully.

Tommy 6:52

Yeah, it's time. Exactly. Yeah. I think, you probably see that a little bit, across the board in, premiership and universities and stuff. lads getting picked up from unis a little bit later, when they've, obviously had a bit more development and, things like that. So yeah, for any encouragement, yeah, just don't give up. Stick, stick with it if that's what you wanna do, and, your time will come.

Arthur 7:16

You were released by Leicester Tigers as a 16-year-old. What did that rejection teach you?

Tommy 7:21

initially not a lot. I, you'd think I'd be head in hands upset, really upset about it all. But it was quite a big cut. There was like four different regions. You had Staffordshire, Lincolnshire, there obviously Norfolk and then Leicestershire. So there was a lot of lads and I'm sure there was a lot of Tommy's getting cut, to be honest. yeah, I didn't really take it to heart. all I cared about was enjoying the sport and your time will come. I think being involved in the academy setup obviously feels professional and, it's pretty special feeling like being a part of a group that's obviously a little bit better than your schoolmates and things like that. So yeah, it was probably hard to take to go back into school and be like, oh, I'm with you guys now, I'm back with you boys. yeah, initially maybe that bit hurt, but, I think for me it was all about playing sport. And at 16 I was still diving into other sports. I still played a bit of hockey. I still messed around and played football with my mates. So yeah, it was, pretty, pretty easy to get over. And, yeah, I just cracked on and I never really thought I'd make it, if I'm honest. I think there's probably times at school where I was never ca I wasn't really captain. there was always someone better than me, so it was always like trying to prove myself and I always felt like that at school, that I had to prove myself to everyone and I felt like I did that. and then, yeah, and then in at Moulton it took a turn.

Arthur 8:53

Yeah. If anything, I've heard some coaches say it's good to have competition 'cause it rises the level a lot.

Tommy 8:58

Yeah, exactly. yeah, it's massive competition and you still have it in the premiership here and training at Saints. you're always competing and if you're not competing, you're not getting better. if you're comfortable set up there, then you're not challenging yourself. no, I think having competition at school and making everything a competition I think is good. I think if you've got that nature about you, I think winning just makes it feel a little bit nicer and sweeter, I think.

Arthur 9:23

What are the coaching lessons that have stuck with you?

Tommy 9:25

I think like I've touched on and never give up mentality, has been massive for me. Obviously not being the biggest, not being the strongest, the fastest, but just controlling what you can control. really, and I would also say enjoying it. I know it's said a lot and, chucked around a lot, but honestly, if you don't enjoy it, what's the point? obviously there's gonna be days where it's hard and it gets tough and you're out of breath and things like that, but you gotta love being in a bit of pain and 'cause when you come out of it the other side, it's, it is a lot better. But, no, I think I've been lucky to have a lot of good coaches, that have really invested in me as a person, and as a player. And I think if you, know the player as a person and you know them on, off the pitch, I think only helps when you're on it.

Arthur 10:14

Thank you.

Tommy 10:15

No worries.

Arthur 10:17

Which players inspired you growing up and what was inspiring about them?

Tommy 10:21

I was a massive Harlequins fan growing up. I absolutely loved Harlequins, so Nick Evans, Danny Care, Mike Brown, they were my three favourite players at school. I was pretty, obviously England, was another watching them and stuff, but I would, I was, I harlequins obsessed. So yeah, those three lads really who I looked up to. I think Danny Care, he's a bit of a legend for England as well. always kept the game fast and was a little bit out there, which I quite liked. Nick Evans was obviously fly half, yeah, watching him play was how I wanted to play. and then Mike Brown was also just a good running rugby player and had a good brain. So yeah, those three kind of, I looked up to as a kid and, loved it.

Arthur 11:07

So not Jason Robinson.

Tommy 11:09

No, I, would, to be honest, by that point, I probably was a bit late to getting into rugby. I was into some, some, younger guys, I would say at that point. But obviously Jason Robinson is a very good player and very quick and, obviously being a winger, I probably didn't have any interest in what he was about, but no, he, did well and he is very good as well.

Arthur 11:29

After joining Northampton Saints as an 18-year-old, how did you give yourself the best chance of getting a pro contract?

Tommy 11:36

Oh yeah, good question. so obviously being released from Leicester, I had a decision to stay at Culford, or make a move. Culford, rugby wise probably wasn't, gonna develop me. I probably wasn't gonna get much out of it and get myself in a shop window. So there was a, teacher there called Charlie Sadler who played in the academy at Saints and got a nasty shoulder injury. So he ended up coaching me at Culford for a bit and he said, go to Moulton College. That's where he went. and it's linked with Northampton. So yeah, I took the leap and obviously Culford probably didn't offer something educationally for me, and from a rugby point of view, I probably wasn't gonna get anywhere. So yeah, I tried to put myself in the shop window, really at Moulton, in my first year, they weren't interested, didn't have a look in, went to no academy sessions. Then John Clark, who used to play for Saints, was coaching me in my second year at Moulton and he said, have you not had a look in? And I said, no, not yet. And he said, I'll come down to a training session and we'll get you in. And then I went down, played the pre-season game, played quite well, then started for the rest of the under eighteens league really. And then I was thinking, there's no way I'm getting a contract here. They've got lads here, they've had in the system from about 13. They've probably made their mind up already. it's the last year. So yeah, I just went into every game thinking it's not gonna happen. Go have fun, show what you can do. I had Australia lined up, wanted to go and travel to Australia and play a bit of rugby down there. But yeah, that got put on hold when I got brought into the office and, they offered me one.

Arthur 13:12

Do you ever think of r redoing the Australia trip?

Tommy 13:14

I had a thought during maybe the Academy years when I wasn't playing too much in Northampton, but after it took off, yeah, probably not, but I'd fortunately I've been to Australia with England and the Lions now, it's, yeah, I'd, rather take that way than the other way.

Arthur 13:29

So it must always be quite nice when you're playing Leicester tigers and just so cool. Winning.

Tommy 13:36

Yeah, it's a good feeling. I think obviously the Derby and Northampton's rivalry through the history and the years of playing that game, yeah, it's always special. It is an always special game when we win that game. And, yeah, a little bit sweeter for me, especially.

Arthur 13:51

When did you know that winger was your position? Was this your decision or did it come from a coach?

Tommy 13:56

No, came from a coach, so I was, I had Furbs had been unlucky with a few injuries. I came off the bench against Gloucester, and went quite well. And then I played at full back, for most of the Academy stuff. those A league games and then this game, and then had the Premiership and a good few games that full back. And then when Furbs became fit again, he slotted straight into full back and they thought, oh, Tommy, Boydy, Chris Boyd at the time has said, oh, do you wanna try giving the Wing a go? I think back three for me was always an option. I would always train in on the wing, and full back, so it wasn't something that shocked me when, to play in it. Obviously playing it, it's a little bit different and you gotta get used to that and it for the premiership especially. But, no, it was Boydy's idea to get us all on the pitch and see how we went and yeah. And then it went quite well.

Arthur 14:54

Yeah, Freddie Steward said, he said for the full back that you have to contact the wingers a lot, so you and Furbs must have had really good, like good friends.

Tommy 15:02

Yeah, definitely. and we're gonna miss him 'cause he is obviously leaving at the end of the year. so it's pretty sad for us. And yeah, I always, I played pretty good with Furbs. You've gotta have a pretty good connection with those wingers like Freddie said. And, yeah, the better you can connect as a back three, it makes everything a bit seamless and you get some pretty good rewards off the back of it. If you're all in sync, I'd say.

Arthur 15:23

Yeah, a hundred percent, but it'll be quite nice playing against them next year, won't it?

Tommy 15:28

oh. No, it'll be weird. It'll be weird. he might make, look, he might make some of us look a bit silly, but, let's hope I can remember some of his traits and stuff to, to not let that happen.

Arthur 15:39

to any young and aspiring wingers out there, what's one piece of advice you would give them?

Tommy 15:43

I think for me, obviously I'd like to, I've got a pretty, wide kind of skillset. I'd say it's a winger. When you think of a winger, you think he's the quickest on the pitch. He's gonna stay on his wing and, yeah, just be that pace guy finish tries it. I think wing, especially at the top level is a lot more than that. I think if you can obviously bring that aerial game to your locker and get off your wing as much as you can, I think the more touches you get as a winger, I think the better for the team. technically rugby is done on a bit of work, right when you're in attack. If you're a winger that can go and create an extra number elsewhere, I think that will only bode well for the team. yeah, I know you're a winger, but I'd say get off your wing as much as possible and, get your hands on the ball.

Arthur 16:32

Then I see in academies when I watch like the under eighteens, for example, some of their centres, for example, they get pushed out to the wing because they've got really good skillset and they're quick.

Tommy 16:41

Yeah, exactly. I think the more versatility you've got, can only help you and yeah, I think if you've got centres playing as wingers and wingers playing as centres, then yeah, it all bodes pretty well.

Arthur 16:53

a bit like you.

Tommy 16:54

Yeah. Yeah. Still lots to work on though. We're, still, working hard and, obviously centres pretty new, so there's, a lot of good centres out there that I'm learning off and hopefully can, compete there.

Arthur 17:07

Who are you learning off?

Tommy 17:09

In the Lions tour, obviously Gary Ringrose is, a legend, Sione Tuipulotu, Hugh Jones, all these guys. it was awesome to play around with them and obviously I was on the wing for the lions for the majority. but I definitely tried to pick up as much as I could in, in general phase play and in general play as, a centre as well. but obviously we've got some pretty good centres at the club at Northampton as well, so yeah, there's still lots of learning. It's still pretty fresh, but, no, I'm loving it.

Arthur 17:38

What do you enjoy most about playing wing?

Tommy 17:41

other than scoring tries and celebrating, trying to celebrate, but Pollock interrupting you rudely. I would say, I think, like I just mentioned, I think having that free roaming ability to get off your wing and go and find Fin or, the boys' shoulders and create that numerical advantage, I think it, it is really fun. you get yourself in the backfield as well and you've got a lot of running space. that's always fun. And that's the best part of the game really, isn't it? It's getting your hands on the ball and taking people on. and obviously you've got players inside you that, that put you in pretty good space to go and finish some nice tries as well.

Arthur 18:23

Speaking of celebrations, which one was your favourite to do?

Tommy 18:27

Oh, I think the lawnmower went down quite well, I think. I'm not sure. that's always good fun. I think Pollock's got a few in the locker that he's probably keeping ready to go. we always have a little chat in the gym and have a laugh about what we're gonna do next and things like that. yeah, there's celebrations are all the kind of things that come off the back of it, but you don't wanna celebrate too early. You need to get the ball down and make sure you're winning the game before you start thinking about that stuff.

Arthur 18:56

Yeah, a hundred percent, I love the wheelbarrow, and I remember Fin yesterday, I was like.

Tommy 19:00

Yeah, he did that one. He loves that one. That's his, I think that's his trademark now. I think he's gonna have to keep doing that. but yeah, it'll be, good to see that we don't see Fin go over too many times. it's always nice to see something come out of him. He's not one for celebrations. When you celebrate and you chuck the ball in for the crowd, he hates it. 'cause he is gotta get the ball back and take the kick. So he is just trying to find the ball and, do all that stuff. no, he's, he's pretty strict with them.

Arthur 19:26

How would you prepare for a big game, and when does this process start?

Tommy 19:29

I'm probably not like others. in preparing for a game, I think from a nutritional point of view, it's very important. and that starts 48 hours before I think you want to be carb loading, making sure you're hydrated, doing all those things. yeah, so you have a pretty big feed two days before, game before the night before as well. You want to get, some good food in for, so you've got enough energy for the game. But from a mental point of view, the more relaxed I am, I think the better. if I'm a little bit like hotheaded and aggressive and riled up like, some boys are, I don't think that benefits me. I like to have a little dance in the changing room before, get the tendons warm, have a laugh with the lads. Yeah. A lot of dancing, to be honest, goes on before games. so yeah, the, I like to go on candy crush on my phone. yeah, I just try and do anything but not think about the game, until I'm out on the warmup. and then you're really into it and, you're in the flow of rugby. And, I think the easiest thing for me, and I'd recommend it to anyone is, when you go into a game, there's that, obviously you've got the nerves. There's, it's, there's a no brainer, but as soon as you get your hands on the ball, those nerves go to bed. So the earlier you can do that, I think the better. but yeah, before the game, I'm pretty, pretty chilled.

Arthur 20:53

What are the kind of go-to dance moves?

Tommy 20:55

Oh God, I can't expose that. it's a load of rubbish, if I'm honest. a lot of two stepping, yeah, a mixture of an awful lot. I couldn't even name the dances to be honest, but, yeah, hopefully, no, no, one's recording and we're not going viral on TikTok again. yeah, there's a, few out there.

Arthur 21:14

I remember Henry Slade, he got one of yours on video.

Tommy 21:17

He did, he was very sneaky. to be fair, we were probably keeping him awake. So he, had, every right to do that I'd, say.

Arthur 21:25

And when you say you help yourself relax, would you listen to any music or how would you do that?

Tommy 21:29

Yeah, so like coming into the club, obviously in the car, listening to music on the headphones and stuff like that. I would do a little bit, but I quite like just talking to the lads, having conversations, playing cards on the way up to games on the bus and things like that on the way back as well. Yeah. So I like to just keep my mind busy away from the game until it's, it is time to go. as soon as you start thinking about the game, you could probably put a lot of scenarios in your head and overthink some stuff and think, oh, I'm gonna do this or try this. And then your mind can go on a big old adventure and you get sweaty hands and you start thinking about stuff like that. So yeah, I try and avoid that kind of switch off away from rugby in until its go time really.

Arthur 22:10

I wonder what's going through Henry's mind. Maybe a chip and chase.

Tommy 22:14

yeah, there'll be something, it'll be a celebration or, nothing, to be honest, is you might not be thinking about absolute anything.

Arthur 22:22

If you've made a mistake in a game, how do you not let it affect you as the match goes on?

Tommy 22:27

it's a good question. it's a skill. It's a definite skill to, to have and to learn. for me it's, you've, I think you're always gonna have mistakes in rugby. it's all about not backing them up. if you're getting all tight and uptight about dropping the ball because you've dropped the one before, I think that you're obviously gonna overthink that and probably drop the ball. so I think it's just making sure whatever you do next, you nail it. and focusing on that next job and not thinking about the thing you've just done. Obviously, mistakes are made and mistakes are good 'cause you're putting yourself under pressure and you're doing things, but there's always human error in a game of sport. So that's how teams can change momentum and things like that. But you've just gotta focus on what you're doing next and what the next job is. If it's a defensive set, if it's running a shoulder ball off a set play or, whatever it looks like, it's, making sure you just nail that and then you're back into the swing of things really.

Arthur 23:25

As Ted Lasso would say, a memory like of goldfish.

Tommy 23:28

Exactly. Exactly, and I've definitely got one of those. So helps me.

Arthur 23:34

What did touring and playing for the Lions last year teach you about being a great teammate?

Tommy 23:38

Oh, it was a lot. it was a brilliant tour. Firstly, when you go on a tour, obviously you've got lads from different countries coming together to play for one team, and you've got to make sure you learn everything as quickly as possible. Understand people's traits, how they do things, how you do things. and I think being in as open and honest, is probably what you need to do. Obviously you've got, you'd say, are there older lads who have been on previous tours? But at the end of the day, you've all been picked for a reason and you've gotta come together and make sure you get a result at the end of the day. yeah, it was just flying into everything with open arms and leaning on people, listening to people and giving your advice and, how you like to receive the ball or, things like that in the game, make sure the team gets the result they need. so yeah, learning really fast was, the main thing, but also being a good lad off the pitch. you want to obviously make some good friends and we have done so. That's really important and making sure you socialise and, involve yourself as, as best as you can to be that best teammate.

Arthur 24:48

Yeah, when we interviewed Jamie George, he says, you guys often warm up with cricket.

Tommy 24:52

Yeah, we love cricket. That's the thing I think, I dunno if it's a sport thing. I think every other sport warms up with a different sport. yeah, it's either cricket or football. And obviously playing at the MCG, in Melbourne was, was pretty special. and yeah, we had a, quick game of cricket in the pre-game the day before the game. So that was really good. and a lot of fun.

Arthur 25:16

What would be your favourite game to warm up with as a team bonding? Football? Cricket?

Tommy 25:21

I think cricket goes down well. Cricket goes down very well, always pretty good. Gets everyone involved and yeah, it's good fun.

Arthur 25:28

Would you say you are a batsman or a bowler?

Tommy 25:32

I'd say an all rounder, really a little bit of everything. probably batting probably lets me down 'cause my ego probably overtakes it and I just try and whack everyone for six and, make a fool of myself really in that way. But no, I'd, say I like to do a little bit of everything jumping in out of, it all really.

Arthur 25:49

Who, in your opinion, we say it was like the best cricketer.

Tommy 25:52

Best cricketer? George Furbank. Hands down. We did a bit of a cinch, yeah, with the Northants cricket players and Furbs genuinely could have fit in there like a glove. he was in his element and he was loving it. he is a very good player, to be fair. Colesy? Alex Coles, I think he's good, or he, thinks he's really good and tries to look the part, which might be disguising it a little bit, but, no, he's pretty keen and full nause for cricket. no, those two are pretty good.

Arthur 26:23

Yeah, I remember seeing the Cinch thing. I remember, I think it was you, I think it was, you kept jumping up

Tommy 26:28

Yeah.

Arthur 26:28

Fin was taking the mick.

Tommy 26:30

I know. Yeah, a hundred percent. I haven't faced a, ball a few balls like that in a long time since being at school. And I think, obviously they're probably coming at me a little bit quicker than it they do at school, and it's not, a soft ball, is it? It's not like a tennis ball or an incrediball. It's it's a pretty hard ball. Even though you got pads on you, you're still worried.

Arthur 26:49

What was the highlight of the tour for you?

Tommy 26:51

there were so many, it's hard. I think obviously winning that game in the MCG was, massive playing in front of all those people and, 102,000 or whatever it was, really cool. there's no feeling quite like it. but I, to be honest, I enjoyed every moment on that tour. whether it was off the pitch, on the pitch, just being a part of a squad and obviously representing the pinnacle of rugby was a real big highlight. and I think it was only till I came off the tour really, that, obviously you're travelling a lot and you're playing rugby a lot and you're doing things so you're, just invested in it completely. but when, you really come back and you take a look back on what, you've done and what you've achieved, and I would've never thought I'd have started all three tests. I thought like being selected in the first place is more than enough, but to be able to, go and play all three games was, extra special.

Arthur 27:52

Did you have a favourite game?

Tommy 27:54

I think the debut, the Brisbane game was really good. obviously winning that was, pretty special to start with and having a good start. But that MCG, I don't think you could compare it. I think obviously we probably didn't play that as, as best as we probably could have. But, I think to go away with a win and win the series at that place in front of that many people, yeah, you can write it really.

Arthur 28:17

Yeah, it's such a good tour. I love watching on tv. So cool saying all the best players play together.

Tommy 28:23

Yeah, it is cool. It is really cool. and yeah, to be a part of it as well, I bet, is, pretty special.

Arthur 28:29

How much time will you get off in the summer and does your training continue during this downtime?

Tommy 28:34

so we'll get about five weeks off in the summer, after the summer tour. and what does that look like for me? so the first three weeks I would say is, probably doing, not a lot. the odd gym session, the odd pump, the odd little upper body just to keep you ticking over. Maybe like a little Wattbike. But to be honest, that's completely try and be off feet as much as possible. Relax, sit in the sun, go on holiday, play golf, padel whatever it looks like. yeah, probably completely switch off. And then the last two weeks I'll probably start introducing a bit more of a plan. you get sent a few bits from the club to, to keep you going. So that looks like gym, a few running sessions, acceleration sessions. and yeah, I think it's just a build, build it back up. So when you come in on that first day pre-season, your legs aren't fully full of doms and you're in a lot of pain after that first day and you're struggling and your lungs are burning. So I think they try and blow the cobwebs out a little bit early. And then by the time you come in, you can pick up a rugby ball and focus more on the rugby stuff rather than the fitness.

Arthur 29:46

And I remember seeing one of those, I remember seeing Marcus Smith on the Wattbike, he pedalling on his like sweat dripping down like mad.

Tommy 29:53

Oh yeah, it's horrendous. Some of the stuff you have to do to get, back in shape, it is tough 'cause you can let yourself go a little bit in those five weeks off. You can obviously eat a little bit nicer, have a few drinks, and, as soon as you start doing that, yeah, you, your weight can fluctuate a little bit. So you've gotta, as much as you wanna switch off, you've gotta stay on top of it and make sure you're, looking after the body or you get punished on pre-season of day one and you get stuck on a Wattbike for a few weeks and it's not nice.

Arthur 30:23

Yeah, luckily for us we have pre-season but not the like really like big pre-season. but then Ipswich for example, like one of our friends goes there, they've got a week of pre-season that's mad.

Tommy 30:34

That's not what you want, is it? You wanna be focusing on the sport rather than the fitness stuff, don't you?

Arthur 30:40

A hundred percent.

Tommy 30:41

Yeah. You wanna be running around having fun with your mates, not getting blasted on Wattbikes and things like that, and running sessions.

Arthur 30:48

Final question. Tommy, what's the best thing about being a professional rugby player?

Tommy 30:52

if I'm honest, it doesn't feel like a job. you obviously talk to your mates, from school and they've obviously got nine to fives and they're going into their office and they're doing their jobs and they're coming back and, yeah, to be honest, it's just feels like a big family really at Northampton especially. you go in, you've got your best mates, you are having a laugh with them every day. You go in smiling. and yeah, you're playing sport that you love. and I know it's difficult, but you are obviously gymming and your body's in shape pretty much all the time. Obviously when you've got a different job and you've gotta go and then gym and do all that stuff after work, it's probably a lot more difficult and I couldn't imagine doing it. But luckily it's, part of the job and you, stay in shape and you perform in front of 15 to 80,000, people. So yeah, when you're doing that for a living, yeah, you never want to take it for granted and it's the best job in the world. but it is a loose job in terms of, I couldn't call it a job, it just feels like I've come out of school and I'm just carrying on playing rugby and I'm acting like a school kid with all my mates. so yeah, I would say yeah, being a professional rugby player, there's, no job quite like it.

Arthur 32:12

Yeah, it's like a dream of mine to be a professional rugby player. Love to be one.

Tommy 32:15

Are you full in for rugby then? There's no, do you wanna be a, you don't wanna be a cricketer or anything like that? Full rugby.

Arthur 32:21

I'm pretty good at, most sports, but yeah, for me, i just love everything about it.

Tommy 32:25

Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Stick at it and I'm sure, you'll be flying.

Arthur 32:29

Thanks so much Tommy and I can't thank you enough for being on my podcast. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Tommy 32:35

No worries, Arthur. Thanks for having me.