Rugby Legends with Arthur Dickins

Sevens Special - Marcus Watson | From Grassroots to Olympic Glory

• Paul Banks • Season 1 • Episode 21

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Olympic rugby changes how a player sees the game, and in this episode of Rugby Legends, Marcus Watson explains exactly why. From choosing World Rugby Sevens Series over the traditional fifteen-a-side route, to discovering how brutally demanding elite sevens really is, this conversation opens up a side of rugby many supporters never fully see.

Marcus talks honestly about the physical and mental demands of tournament rugby, why raw speed is never enough on its own, and how recovery between games often matters as much as performance itself. He also reflects on players who shaped his thinking, including names casual fans may never have heard but elite players rate incredibly highly.

The conversation then moves into one of the most unusual parts of any rugby career: life inside the Olympic Games. From entering the village for the first time, to spotting Usain Bolt unexpectedly disappearing from a lunch hall, Marcus explains why that environment leaves such a lasting mark on athletes.

There is also practical value here for younger players and parents. Marcus breaks down what skills matter most in sevens, what coaches often underestimate, and what young players misunderstand about the route to elite sport. His reflections on hard work, confidence, and the advice he once felt too young to accept make this one of the most useful episodes for players trying to understand what high-level rugby really asks of you.

If you enjoy honest rugby conversations, subscribe and follow Rugby Legends for more episodes with players, coaches, and people who have lived the game at the highest level.

Arthur

hi everyone, I'm Arthur Dickins and this is my Rugby Legends podcast. In each episode, I interview an amazing rugby player or coach to get their insight and advice for young rugby players just like me who are keen to learn and get better. This episode is a sevens special, and I'm very excited to be speaking with Marcus Watson, the Ex England and Great Britain sevens specialist. Marcus played his club rugby at Newcastle Wasps and Benetton as a fullback and winger, but he combined this with being part of an England Sevens squad competing around the world between 2012 and 2015. He was selected for the Rio Olympics in 2016 and went on to win silver as part of a talented squad at those games. I hope you find Marcus's knowledge and wisdom as helpful as I did, enjoy! I just want to thanks so much for taking the time to be on my podcast. I really appreciate it.

Marcus

No, not at all. What you are doing mate, is, awesome, especially at your age, so I am, it is a pleasure to be on.

Arthur

Thank you so much. Marcus with it being seven season for a lot of players at the moment, and having recently played at Rosslyn Park myself, I would love to get your wisdom and advice for this format of the game. Is that okay?

Marcus

Absolutely. Of course it is. Of course it is. And, Rosslyn Park. How good a tournament is that, by the way, as well.

Arthur

I love it. It's one of my favourite times of the year. I've been two years now, and I've loved it.

Marcus

It is awesome. It's so good. so you want to, you want me to just give you a bit of a rundown about some seven stuff and how, how it works, et cetera?

Arthur

Yes, please. That's all right.

Marcus

Yeah, sure. I'm sure Arthur, but for your listeners, sevens is, essentially a smaller format of fifteens. The rules are exactly the same pitch size. The only difference being instead of conversions you have, you have drop goals, and then also if you score, you take the restart. So those are the two main differences. Everything else is, basically the same when it comes to rules, but three people in the scrum, three people in the line out, and seven minute halves. so it's fast paced and, pretty tiring as I'm sure you know, Arthur.

Arthur

Yeah, definitely. Firstly then, for you, when did sevens first come on your radar?

Marcus

it first came on my radar. I'd love to be able to tell you the exact date arthur, it was a long time ago. But, I remember watching Tom Varndell, who was an old winger, used to play for Leicester, and a guy called Matthew Tait, and I think it was in the Commonwealth Games that I watched them in. I must have been similar age to you, maybe slightly older. Yeah, no, about the same age as you. 13, 14. And, I watched them play and thought that looked so fun. I love playing rugby because I like getting the ball in my hands and running with it. And that's basically all sevens is. And I saw those two guys really quick, really good footwork, making line breaks and making it look like a really enjoyable experience. And then just like you said, went to Rosslyn Park, thought that was amazing. And I think I got to the point where I was even looking on who played England Sevens before and just, before I started, Danny Care played James Haskell, so quite a few players. And as I said, Matthew Tate and Tom Varndell, all four of those players plus numerous others, Ben Foden to name a few, have all went to sevens, then played England fifteens. So that was I thought amazing. I could potentially do both or try to do fifteens and sevens. so that's when sevens caught my eye, 13, 14 years old,

Arthur

When you're at Rosslyn Park, did you ever get through to the next day?

Marcus

no, I always wanted to miss school for the next day Arthur, but I never managed to, I went to a school called St. George's College. Weybridge and, we, weren't the best at rugby school. Maybe I should have just played a little bit better.

Arthur

What made you commit to it over a 15 man game?

Marcus

it's a funny one because when I first started it was you played sevens and then you could go back to play fifteens. It was very much. If you were in the academy at your club, you could get invited to go play sevens, and then you go back to fifteens. So when I first started, that was still the case, but so I played my first tournament at 19 and I was still with London Irish. then it got introduced into, it got, accepted into the Olympics. So then it a new coach came in, called Simon Amor, who was an unbelievably good coach and he changed it into a full time program. So you'd have to basically be full time sevens just like a club team. and I went, I was at Saracens actually, I had a dual contract with Saracens and Sevens for the first year. That was, that did not really work very well, so it was a case of choosing one or the other. I carried on with sevens with the hope that I'd get back into fifteens. So I was fully committed. Committed, but the plan was always to try and get back into fifteens and Saracens made it a little bit more simple for me because I was injured, I think, after, from pre-season, my first year at Saracens. and I wasn't, I think I played one game for the second team and that was it. So they weren't going to recontract me with how injury prone I was. so it was an easy decision for me.

Arthur

Do you ever wish you chose fifteens?

Marcus

It is a great question. And so the honest answer is I would love to know what would've happened if I did play just fifteens, but I don't regret playing sevens in the slightest because sevens, I think, throughout my whole career probably taught me the most about myself. turn me from, a boy into a man and, I made lifelong friends and also managed to travel the world. And, one thing I can carry with me and, tell my kids and their kids that I went to the Olympics and got a silver medal, which is quite cool.

Arthur

What made you so good at sevens?

Marcus

I think initially sevens is great for back three players who are fast. And have good footwork. And I would say those were probably my two strongest factors as a rugby player. so I'd say initially it was those two, and then towards the end I think you can't play sevens for very long unless you are mentally pretty tough. And you have to be at least a quite good teammate because it's such a small squad. you have to be able to get on with people. If you don't, you get figured out pretty quickly and it's not good for the team environment. So I would say, initially speed and footwork. And then, and then, and I think I had a good all round skill base too. but that got better the more I played. And then I think some of that mental toughness came in because I remember the first game of sevens I played in Australia. we played Scotland and I sat down, I remember this so well, I was 19. So this was how many years ago? Is that 14? Yeah. 14 years ago. And I sat down in the changing room afterwards in the tunnel with a wet towel over my head thinking I can't actually play this again, and I had five more games to play. it was the toughest thing I've ever done. And then after that, it was fine. It was just that first game really tough. And then it was all better after that that mental toughness, definitley creeps in when you play sevens.

Arthur

I was watching some of your highlights the other day, and people used to call you the flash.

Marcus

That was, that's a nice nickname to have. I won't lie that if I was to pick one, it's up there, so I'll take it.

Arthur

How easy or difficult is it to switch between sevens and fifteens?

Marcus

I think it used to be, it used to be easier because you could play both. So you could keep, dip your toe in either and keep yourself sevens ready and fifteens ready. 'cause the more you practice anything, the better you'll be. I remember playing sevens for two years, then going back to fifteens and, It took longer than I thought because I'd played fifteens my whole life. I thought, okay, this will be quite easy, to go back to fifteens, and it took a little bit of time, but I would say I was probably quite, the only thing that was difficult was the positioning side of things. Everything else was easy. The harder transition, I'd only been in fifteens for one year, was from fifteens to go back to sevens. Not because of anything to do with the way it was played, but fitness. There's nothing worse than playing a game of sevens when you're not as fit as everybody else. And I found that out in the Olympic trials actually when I came back, for that period. going from 15 to sevens, the fitness is the hard element and sevens to fifteens is maybe the tactical side of things, but physically you can play both and be absolutely fine.

Arthur

Speaking of fitness, what did your like fitness program look like?

Marcus

so the difference between the sevens, sevens fitness and fifteens to sevens is obviously shorter, so there's a lot more speed endurance. So you have to do some serious speed endurance. But the way it worked is in fifteens you have one big block of preseason, and then you have your whole season with sevens. You have, say you have six or seven, eight tournaments a year, and they're, they come in two blocks. So if you have London this weekend, you'll have Edinburgh the weekend after, and then you'll have a four or five week break. In that four or five week break, you have a little mini preseasons within it, so you have, if you stay fit the whole year, you've got about six mini preseasons and then your actual preseason is very long as well. the fitness element is very different, but it keeps you incredibly fit by the fact that you do so much fitness throughout the year. but in terms of the difference between the two, you do more speed endurance stuff with sevens and fifteens is a you, do less fitness 'cause it's not as difficult when it comes to your lungs.

Arthur

Your seven sounds intense to work out.

Marcus

It is, there's plenty of elements about sevens that's pretty tough. and the fitness is the one that you'll notice first.

Arthur

Yeah, will Greenwood said, and even when he played fifteens, he tried to escape from the gym. Tried, tried some ways.

Marcus

I've seen many players that try and do the same. Do you know, Willie Le Roux who plays you the South African Fullback?

Arthur

I have heard of him.

Marcus

Yeah. So he one of the best players I've ever played with. He would always try and skip the gym. You'd find him walking around the gym for half an hour, not lifting any weights, but what a player he is,

Arthur

Who were the best sevens players you've played with or against?

Marcus

with. can I name three that I've played with?

Arthur

Yes.

Marcus

Okay, so there's one player called... every player that's played with this person will say him and no, not many people know who this, who he is, but his name is Damudamu an England Sevens player, Fijian descent. And he was unbelievable at everything. Just a complete rugby player. Unbelievable footwork, good speed, good fitness. He was about six foot four, six foot five. yeah, if you wanted to check out some highlights, have a look at his afterwards. and then the other two that comes straight to mind, it would be, he's one of my best friends. So we like to take the mick out of each other, so I never like saying his name, but Dan Norton is one of the best players I would've played with when he wants to, when he's, when he is on and he's playing his best, he's untouchable. I played in, I played center with him and I pass him the. And I could almost walk back to the halfway line sometimes. he was that good, when he, was on, and another one was a guy called Matt Turner in terms of ability, and, and yeah, just natural ability. Matt Turner was. Unbelievable. he played nine center wing. He'd beat Dan Norton in some of the speed tests every now and again, which, Dan Norton didn't like. but yeah, he was a great, natural rugby player. And against, I was going to say, I. I think against, in, in sevens there is, a South African rugby player called Cornal Hendricks, who sadly passed away last year actually. and I used to love playing against him because we had good battles against each other and he was a great player. so I, I think I put him up there on the list and another guy called Joe Webber who played for New Zealand, who was also my opposite man, quite a lot. Two very good players.

Arthur

Out of the, all of those players, which would you say stood out for you the most?

Marcus

yeah, I'd say Dan Norton when he, there's a period when he is playing his best rugby. it's a joy to watch and it is, it's. So fun to be playing with him, because he's got great energy about him as well as a person. when you pass him the ball and you know that he is as fast as he is and he can do that. When I talked about speed endurance, there's not many better than him. He can do six, seven full out sprints in a game and score six, seven tries. He's, he, when, you say, stood out the most, he is someone that if I was your age and watching. He'd be my favourite player.

Arthur

Yeah. After this interview, I'll have a look at some of his highlights.

Marcus

be impressed, I'm sure.

Arthur

What are the two or three things a young player absolutely must develop if they want to play sevens at the highest level.

Marcus

so I would say, a good all round skillset would be one, because I think a lot of people think of sevens and they think, of just flare, footwork, speed. But if you can't tackle, that's a problem. So you have to have a good all round skillset because you miss a tackle in sevens and it can be a try or it's more likely going to be a try. Whereas fifteens, you miss a tackle, there's so many players on the pitch, likelihood is one of your teammates will be able to try to make that tackle to help you out. Sevens you might not be so lucky. and it won't just be tackling, it's also you have to be really strong in a ruck as well. 'cause if you lose sevens, it's so important to keep hold of the ball. So if you lose a ruck, then, if you're no, not good at rucking, you keep losing the ball, then if you don't have the ball, you can't score. So a good all round skill set would be one, two would be fitness, like you, you don't have to be, Dan Norton style, speed, or, Henry Arundell type speed you. You just have to make sure that you're fit enough to be able to get past those 14 minutes. Because for example, there's someone that I can think of, a player called Chris Cracknell who played sevens for quite a long time and he was not the fastest, he was a big guy. So he was very, strong, but he was very fit and he had to be because everyone's so fast that he had to stay fit. So I would say those two would be the main factors. of what you need as a strong base to become a sevens player.

Arthur

Yeah, the talk before a game, what we said is, yeah, a missed tackle can lead to a try and as you said earlier in the interview, you do get found out in sevens.

Marcus

you do. And it's, great to put your skills under pressure and sevens is a very good way of doing it. That's why I advocate sevens massively for, young players like yourself.

Arthur

During tournaments, how did you manage to play multiple games in a day? Both mentally and physically?

Marcus

Arthur, that's a great question because I think it's one thing that gets overseen quite a lot in Sevens or maybe not thought about is you, if you win all your games, you get to a final. You have to be at your best for that final when you are at your most tired because you've had five games over two days, sometimes three. That will be, you'll be knackered at that point and that's when you actually have to be at your best. So being able to recover in between games is key. we tried plenty of different approaches. there's times when what I like to do is I like to nap in between games quite a lot. which, you think is strange 'cause you're thinking, okay, this guy's going to be going out to play in a couple hours. Why is he asleep? But sleep is a great recovery tool. and then. You now after the three days. So after day one, you like, you can have ice baths or, recovery protein shakes. and, then towards the end of my career, people started getting the, the norma tech boots or the leg compression boots so you can get those, travel with them, put them on after a game. if you, but you don't need anything fancy, the main thing would be if you were to get some, if you can, little nap lots of water. And lots of fuel. and that will get you through a weekend. Absolutely fine. If you don't do any of those three things, it might be a pretty tricky weekend for you.

Arthur

I remember when I was at Rosslyn Park, there was like this tent called the Elite Rugby Academy, and I tried on the compression boots. They're like, they're really nice,

Marcus

Yeah. Because you can change the different, settings, can't you? So you can make it. how did your legs feel afterwards? Did they feel good?

Arthur

but they just feel brand new that all the lactic acid's gone,

Marcus

they're good. They're very good. There's loads of different recovery tools that are great and, they're definitely one of them. I used to use them a little bit as well.

Arthur

winning a silver at the Rio Olympics in 2016 must have been extraordinary. Can you tell us about your experience?

Marcus

Yeah. yeah, it was amazing and, The first thing, and I, if anyone's heard me say this, it would sound like a broken record 'cause I say it every single time. But, the way to ex the way to explain walking into the Olympic Village was like walking into human Jurassic Park. because there was, I think the first two people or groups that I saw was the Australian basketball team and there was someone who was seven foot two I think in that. Yeah. and then. after them came the GB gym gymnasts, and there was, there was a couple of Ladies there and men that could almost walk through my legs. So it was like, it was unbelievable to see the different athletes, but it was the coolest thing was just being in a village where you could say that some of the best athletes in the whole world were there, in one place at one time all going for gold, which was very cool. So the, and then it was, also so strange because we're in such a big tournament, being the Olympics, but within it, it's everything that we are used to. The sevens tournament's, exactly the same as all the World Series stuff. but yeah, what a time we had. It was amazing. And then we had five days to celebrate afterwards, which was really good fun.

Arthur

Did you ever talk to anybody like, any different athletes or like basketball players at the Olympics?

Marcus

So I could tell you some of the people that I, we saw, and I'm trying to think of who we spoke to. That would've been fame, that would've been very famous. We spent quite a bit of time with Andy Murray because he was the team captain. Some of the famous people we saw when we walked in, it was, Novak Djokovic was playing tennis in the, Olympic Village. We saw Usain Bolt sitting down having some food, but he got, so he would've probably, he's been to a few Olympics before, so I'm sure this would've happened to him in the past. But he, Sat down to have his food. Everyone. I think most people, athletes feel like they might be quite well known back home, but they're probably quite safe in the Olympic Village with everybody being, top at their sport. So maybe being used to being in the public eye. But, there's another level when it comes to those kind of people because everyone was trying to take pictures with Usain Bolt, just to the point that he had to run out of the, the lunch hall because everyone was trying to snap pictures of him. but we saw Serena Williams and Venus Williams as well. and we the, USA basketball team, so we saw Kevin Durant, and I can't remember who else we saw out of the Olympic basketball team. and, but they, were right in front of us in the, queue for the opening ceremony. But they didn't stay at the, they didn't stay at the Olympic Village. the other one that was very cool was, was Sir Chris Hoy, he came and gave us our shirts, which was really cool as well. So those are a few names that I've just dropped out there for you that we spent a bit of time with, which was cool.

Arthur

That is so cool. That sounds like an amazing event.

Marcus

No, it was very good fun. it was amazing.

Arthur

What was the best thing about being part of an England seven setup?

Marcus

the best thing about being part of an England SE seven setup. do you know, one thing that was so fun is being able to travel the world with some of your best friends? My, my best man at my wedding called Jeff Williams, who I spoke to today actually, he. Yeah, I've roomed with him towards the end and we traveled all the countries of the world playing together and with our other, met with everybody else in the team who was also really good mates. and when you are, especially when you're young, 19, 20, I was at the time, amazing to be able to do that. So that's certainly up there. and then just competing in a, on a sort of world stage was also very cool. So those two things, I'd say the best.

Arthur

Which was your favourite country to tour around?

Marcus

Ooh, good question. So the first one that comes to mind is Wellington. I loved Wellington in New Zealand, because it's the Kiwis love rugby so much, that it was great to see what it was like, and it, the stadium was amazing. We won the tournament one year, which was I think maybe why it's got such, why I loved it so much because we were getting booed, in the final 'cause we were playing Kenya. we were getting booed in the final and for some reason I just loved that. I thought it was awesome.

Arthur

That's so cool. For a young player who dreams of representing GB at the Olympics, what does it actually take to get there?

Marcus

first thing, as we discussed before, just en enjoying rugby at the start. So just play rugby because it's fun and because you like doing it. And then when it starts getting a bit more serious, what it takes is, A lot of commitment and, and, some pretty, pretty hard work, but not hard work that you'll end up loving. if that's what your end goal is, you'll end up enjoying doing some of the hard yards to get there. a lot of hard work, a lot of commitment, and, still trying your best to enjoy it, enjoy traveling and, the rest of it, the sevens bring. It's not easy, but it is fun. And, you'll learn a lot about yourself as well doing it.

Arthur

What did you learn about yourself doing it?

Marcus

So I learned that I had a lot left in the tank. I did not know what hard work was, until I did sevens. I think I let things for a long while. I think I thought things would figure. I think I thought everything would figure itself out and I would just end up where I wanted to be, and sevens really taught me that, you have to work pretty hard to get where you want to be. so that is the big thing that sevens taught me. but it also taught me that you can have fun whilst doing it. It's not just a case of, You hear a lot of, motivational talks about people running themselves into the ground and there's no fun and all that stuff. No, you can definitely still enjoy yourself at the same time and it's, great being around good mates whilst you're doing it. So I think sevens definitely taught me how to work hard.

Arthur

Yeah, hard work beats talent as well.

Marcus

Exactly. It's true because you've, I, and I've seen it. Plenty of times. our two best players at England under sixteens were, two, two of the only players that didn't really do that much. One of them ended up playing the premiership, but the other didn't at all. And nearly everybody from that under sixteens team managed to, to either play Premiership, professional rugby or even go on and play for England. So I agree with you on that front.

Arthur

The person who played in the premiership, what was his name?

Marcus

his name is Joe Trayfoot he played in the Premiership. and then we had in my under sixteens team there was Owen Farrell, Mako Vunipola, and then if I'm mixing a couple of years, there was also George Kruis, Jonathan Joseph, Manu Tuilagi, Christian Wade, George Ford came in later. Billy Vunipola came in later and he was really young, but massive. Do you watch gladiators?

Arthur

I watch a bit of it. I watch a bit of it.

Marcus

my captain, at U16s and who I played sevens with Alex Gray, who is Apollo. he was in it too. So we, had some, pretty good players in that team.

Arthur

Gee, that sounds like an amazing U16s

Marcus

Yeah, I think that I'm mixing, I think U18s and U16s, but yeah, it was, and I'm sure I'm missing some players as well, to be honest with you.

Arthur

What has the game taught you about life outside of sport?

Marcus

Yeah, I think, it has taught me what is it taught, what is it I, the hard work for sure, what hard work actually is and what it requires. it's taught me how to be a good teammate and to talk to people. And when I say be a good teammate, that can just be. In a work environment that can be just, making sure you get on with people. and, it's taught me how important that is. team being a good team player because a couple of it only takes one or two bad eggs to ruin a, team, team culture or team environment. so it's definitely taught me those, those, things, and. It's taught me different cultures because I managed to go to Italy for the last two years of my career, which was amazing. Really good. And it was very cool to see a different side of life and different side of how Rugby's done over there. So, yeah, I'd say those three things are the first ones to come to mind when you, when I think of what's Rugby's taught me. In fact, sorry, one more that's even more important than that I think is injuries are a side of rugby that no one that isn't spoken about that much. And injuries taught me a lot too in terms of, how to deal with setbacks. so that was very important for me as a man as well, I reckon.

Arthur

Yeah, I was watching Olly Lawrence's like the comeback when he had his injury and a quote that he said that I really is what you put in is what you'll get out.

Marcus

Absolutely. absolutely. It's a great quote. And, I use my, brother. My brother played, played for England. He was good, very good player. And he, I always use him as an example because I think a lot of people think with injuries, you. They think, oh, I've lost something. But you can gain a lot from an injury as well. You can come at back a better player, whether that's in whatever category, but an injury is an opportunity in some respects as well. So he, every time he's had some serious injuries, I think he's managed to come back a better player. And that exactly like you just said, shows that the work that he put in during his injury was good work.

Arthur

A hundred percent. If you could go back and give your 18-year-old self one piece of advice. What would it be?

Marcus

I would say for me as an 18-year-old, ask more questions. be more curious because I think I've always been curious, but I've been scared to ask questions and now that I'm older, I think I probably annoy people with how many questions I ask, but I end up learning a lot from it, because you ask people questions that you want to know answers from and you learn a lot. and I think I was too scared to do that at 18, and I, and that's something I should have changed, I think.

Arthur

That's very interesting.

Marcus

What do you think about that?

Arthur

I think that's good. I feel like, I think yeah, be curious as well. if you don't get something, I feel you definitely ask questions. I try to get out my shell a bit and ask some questions.

Marcus

That's why I think it's amazing what you're doing because, at even at 18, I think I would've been very nervous to do what you're doing. So you're doing a great job. and it looks like you're not nervous to ask questions at all, which is great. So well done.

Arthur

I feel, I did feel, I feel very nervous, but

Marcus

You don't look at being nervous is okay. Everyone gets nervous, so don't worry about that. You're doing a great job, mate.

Arthur

thanks so much.

Marcus

worries.

Arthur

Final question, Marcus, if you were a young player watching this interview right now, what's the one thing you'd want 'em to walk away thinking?

Marcus

Maybe just what we've spoken about now, I, firstly, I'd turn around and say, don't look at me. Look at Arthur doing great work at his age. so you'd be the inspiration, I think, for young kids as what? more so than myself. But I think I would just, like we spoke about ask questions. be curious because you get a lot of good answers. and don't be scared to ask people in, Anyone, you can ask anyone a question. Look, they might not give you a response, but what's the harm in asking? so that would be what I'd say.

Arthur

Thank you so much Marcus, and I can say thanks so much for taking the time to be on our podcast. I really appreciate you taking the time.

Marcus

Not at all, Arthur, I really enjoyed it. Thank you very much for having me on, mate.