Rugby Legends with Arthur Dickins

Jim Hamilton: Scotland Rugby Legend on Life, Leicester & The Rugby Pod

• Arthur Dickins • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Jim Hamilton, former Scotland lock and British & Irish Lion, joins Arthur Dickins on Rugby Legends to share his journey from football pitches in Coventry to the world’s biggest rugby stages.

Jim talks openly about his late start in rugby, the struggles of learning skills at speed, and the setbacks that shaped his career. From Leicester to Saracens, and 63 Scotland caps, he reveals the brutal truths of injuries, leadership, and what it takes to survive at the top.

This episode also dives into Jim’s mantras, his biggest inspirations, and his transition into podcasting. Alongside career highlights, he shares emotional moments like running out with his son for his 50th cap — and the friendships he misses most about professional rugby.

Packed with wisdom for young players, hilarious stories, and raw reflections, this conversation shows why Jim Hamilton is more than just a “man mountain” — he’s a voice for resilience, honesty, and passion in rugby.

#RugbyLegendsPodcast #YouthRugby #Rugby #JimHamilton #RugbyUnion #RugbyLife #Leadership #Teamwork #RugbySkills #Inspiration

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Speaker:

Hi, I'm Arthur Dickins and this is my Rugby Legends podcast. In each episode, I interview an amazing rugby player or coach to get their insight and advice for young rugby players just like me, who are keen to learn and get better. In this episode, I'm very happy to be speaking with the Man Mountain that is the ex-Scotland second row, Jim Hamilton. Jim was a powerhouse lock who played most of his rugby career at Leicester Tigers, Gloucester, and Saracens. At Saracens, he won both Premiership and European champion's cup twice. Jim was capped 63 times by Scotland over a 10 year period and retired from all forms of rugby in 2017. Many of you know Jim from The Big Jim Show podcast, and as a co-presenter of the world's number one rugby podcast, the Rugby Pod. I hope you find Jim's knowledge and wisdom as helpful as I did, enjoy.

Arthur:

Jim, how did you get into rugby and how old were you when you started?

Jim:

Arthur, I was older than you when I started, so you are 12 years old. At the age of 15 I was six foot seven, six foot eight. So I actually enjoyed playing football,'cause I grew up on the mean streets of a place called Coventry and there wasn't a huge amount of Rugby where I was. but because I was so big, football wasn't for me. And there was a local rugby club called Barkers Butts that has produced some of the, great rugby players of years gone by. And your, I don't expect you to necessarily know them, but I'm sure that your, mum and dad might. Leon Lloyd, Neil Back, Danny Grewcock. There was a guy called Tom Wood as well, who was my neighbour. So there was a really good rugby club up the road, and because I was so big, I got picked up to play there at about the age of 15 or 16. And then off the back of that, I got picked up by Leicester Tigers, who back in the day were looking for very big human beings. And I wasn't amazing at rugby, but I was a very big human being. So in answer to your question, I didn't start playing until I was about 15, 16 years old.

Arthur:

what position did you play in football?

Jim:

Oh, that's a good question. I was a centre midfield. I wanted to be an attacker. I was good at the corners and headed them in. But I was a central midfielder. scored a goal. Once from the halfway line, I went to clear the ball. It went top right hand corner. So that's my only, positive when it comes to football.

Arthur:

Do you support Coventry in football Then?

Jim:

Do I now they're good I do, Yeah! I'm a bit of a glory supporter. So Man United, I supported them when I was a little bit younger as well, when they were really good. and they had Ryan Giggs and Beckham and Paul Scholes and all of these legends playing. but yeah, I'd say I, loosley support Coventry. I support Rangers as well in Scotland. My dad was a Rangers fan, but probably Man United, but not at the minute, because they're not very good.

Arthur:

What skill did you have to work the hardest on?

Jim:

Oh, there was a few skills, Arthur, I dunno if you saw me play back in the day, but there was a few skills that I needed to work hard on. one of the most difficult things, and I say this to my children as well and to young kids who want to play. You have to be an incredible athlete to play rugby, especially now, and I was big, but I wasn't an incredible athlete. I didn't do a huge amount of like athletic movement, and I didn't obviously do gymnastics or karate or judo or sprint training when I was younger. And that's what you need to be. You need to be a great athlete, you need to be able to move well. So I constantly had to work on my speed. I wasn't the quickest. I was probably one of the slowest. If not the slowest players who have ever played for Scotland. yeah. So I'd have to work constantly on running and trying to run fast and because I was 19, 20 stone, getting'em off, getting up off the floor in these things. So yeah, I would say that the, speed side of the game was something that I constantly had to be thinking about.

Arthur:

That's very interesting. Thank you. Which player inspired you growing up and what was inspiring about them?

Jim:

Yeah, so there was a couple of players. So the shirt that you are wearing, Leicester Tigers back in the day were one of the best teams in the world, if not the best club team in the world. Martin Johnson was the captain. He was the captain of England. He was the captain of the Lions, and he was my position. So he was a player that I looked up to. that I tried to mould my game on. So I'd say that definitely Martin Johnson. And then the other one would've been the great, the late Doddie Weir as well. So I loved Doddie as a player, way before everything came out about his illness. Young Arthur, he was a brilliant man, and I didn't model just my game on him. I modeled my after career, my after game, what life was like after rugby beyond Doddie, because he had this great. Ability to make people laugh, to make people feel comfortable. and the fact that he was in my position playing for Scotland wore the same number as me, was a British Irish lion as well. But the way that he conducted himself, so I would say the two would be Martin Johnson and the great, the late Doddie Wear.

Arthur:

When did you know you were going to make it as a professional?

Jim:

I questioned that every time, every week, every day. because, I wasn't destined to be a professional rugby player. It wasn't something that I aspired to be. It wasn't something that I thought was even possible, mate. But I think. I knew, when you get your first contract, and I think when you play your first professional game, and you know that you can mix it with the best and physically you can stand up to it. And I suppose, your first big tackle, the first big run that you have with the ball, is when you stop, not doubting yourself, but you think, right? Yeah. I can mix it with the big boys now. So I imagine when I was around 21. When I broke into the Leicester Tigers first team properly, where I was like, this is the real deal now. I don't need to join the Army anymore. I can play rugby.

Arthur:

And who's your best mate at Leicester Tigers Team. When you joined?

Jim:

Oh, my best mate. I had a few best, we had a really good group of lads, very, lucky. So you had the older players like Martin Johnsons and your Ben Kays. They would've been in the same era as Dave Flatman, who I know you've had on your show, but. My would've been a guy called Brett Deacon. He's the forwards coach at Leicester now. He was the best man at my wedding. my mate, Slugger Ravo, he'd played at Leicester, but More played for Nottingham, which was the sister team to the Tigers. Harry Ellis played Scrum-Half as well, for Leicester. So there was a great group, Ollie Smith, who played in the centre. Yeah, so I could name 20 guys in that team who were my best mates. But for Scotland, my best mate was Kelly Brown. So Kelly Brown, if you dunno who he is, as soon as you look him up, you'll see massive set of eyebrows. it doesn't, look like he's real. and his name's Kelly and some people said it was a girl's name, but I quite enjoyed him. So he was, he's my best mate still.

Arthur:

And as you're talking about teams, what would you say makes a great team?

Jim:

rugby's different to a lot of other teams, right? Because it's, you have to be physical, but you need to be skillful. You need guys that can kick. what makes a great team? I know the answer to this. I don't want to go too deep on you, Arthur, but I was at, Saracens and we won stuff when we were there. I was at Leicester when we won stuff with without. I played for Scotland for 10 years and we didn't win a huge amount. What makes a great team is honesty, but able to have honest conversations with your teammates. Being able to have honest conversations with your coaches and for them to be able to have honest conversations with you and to be able to say, you weren't good enough this week, or you've been able to go to the coach and say, coach, I don't believe in the game plan that we're playing this week. I think this, and be able to feel comfortable to have that both ways. So I think, great teams are underpinned by honesty.

Arthur:

you played in England U19 and U21 level, but Scotland as a senior, can you tell us about that?

Jim:

Oh yeah, some might say I wasn't good enough to play for England, but I begged to differ. I grew up in Scotland, so I've always had a Scottish link. My name Jim Hamilton is very Scottish. It's more Scottish than William Wallace and I was playing at Leicester. I was in a very good team. And the players in my position for England were very, good. It was probably the most difficult position to make it into the England team. but I always knew there was an opportunity to play for Scotland and it wasn't'cause I didn't feel I was good enough to play for England. I was at the point in life where I fancied a little bit of a change and Scotland came knocking. there was a World Cup around the corner, in 2007 and my. Gut feeling, which is what I always say to go with your gut feeling, was to make a change and to open up a new opportunity in my life. I, was very Leicester, I grew up in Coventry, in the Midlands. it was very a close-knit group, but I felt like if I was gonna take the next step and get to the next level, which is international, to play in World Cups and try and become a British Irish lion. That I needed something different. So I made the decision at the age of 22 to play for Scotland.

Arthur:

if you hadn't made it in rugby, what would've you done in your career?

Jim:

I always wanted to join the Army. So my dad was in the Army. I grew up in the Army. That's why I don't have a Scottish accent because we traveled around a lot. I lived in Northern Ireland, I lived in Germany. we lived. Down south as well. all my friends joined the military as well. I was in the Air Cadets. I was in the Army Cadets when I was younger, so I had a real interest in that. And yeah, I, would've wanted to join the military and I still have a close connection with a lot of people in the military. I'm glad I didn't because the life and the career that I had was really cool and special. But there's a part of me that, oh, what if. You know what, what would've looked like, but it would've been in a difficult time'cause of the wars and stuff like that were around. there's a part of me that's glad that didn't happen.

Arthur:

were there any rituals you had before a game?

Jim:

Yeah, towards the end of my career.'cause I had dodgy fingers. I had to strap my fingers up so I would strap them in a certain way. Was a little bit of a ritual. And then towards the end of my career, someone said to me, I remember a great captain came in, Jason White, who Captain Scotland, probably one of the greatest players to have played for Scotland, and said that the game will leave you so quickly, as quickly as it comes, it goes be in the moment. And I always listen to music before the game and then after he said that. I didn't listen to music anymore, so I had a ritual of listening to music. And then I had a ritual of never listened to music before a game, so I could really enjoy everything that surrounded that and being in the moment. no real ritual, strapping the fingers a certain way, maybe. but I would say that, not listening to music, if you can call that a ritual.

Arthur:

When you did listen to music, what was your favourite song to listen to before a

Jim:

Ah, it was Eminem not afraid. Yeah, I dunno if, I dunno, maybe don't listen to Eminem just yet. there's a few fruity words in there. But yeah, this was the thing, Arthur, because my career, part of the legacy was there was a lot of fighting and a lot of yellow cards and a lot of red cards. And I put that down to a lot of angry music that I would listen to the lead up. if I had my time again, I'd maybe listen to something more chill. I actually used to listen to Bob Marley as well, randomly. Yeah. Bob Marley a little bit Fugees as well. It's all coming back to me.

Arthur:

Were there any mantras that you live by?

Jim:

Go as hard as you can go. That was it. I always said to myself, after rugby, I could look myself in the mirror and say I couldn't give any more. And that didn't happen all the time. You know what I mean? It's all well in good. Going in with, a mantra or something that you want to be defined by. But I always said, go as hard as you can go give it your very best. And if you can, look yourself in the mirror. And every time I played for Scotland, Arthur, I could look myself in the mirror and say that I could not have given anymore. Some of it wasn't great, a lot of the time. there'd be lots of things that you want to work on. But I could always look myself in the mirror and say, I gave absolutely everything.

Arthur:

how did you react to other people's mistakes?

Jim:

not like Owen Farrell by shouting at everyone, but maybe I should have. I had a little bit of empathy for people. Really. we all make mistakes, at the highest level. Obviously, it can become problematic to the team if you carry on making mistakes. I get that. it's frustrating. I understand that. But to other people's mistakes, I've always be positive. I did have leadership qualities. I was captain and stuff of Gloucester. I, was a senior in, a lot of the teams that I was in, like in the leadership team. I don't think anyone reacts well to being shouted at or to be made fun of when that happens. So I always made sure that I put an arm around, next job, all of these things. but I, hope I was a positive influence on people who made mistakes.

Arthur:

What's the hardest part about playing second row?

Jim:

You are involved in a lot of things. So you're involved in the jumping, you're involved in the scrums, in the rucks. You have to tackle, you have to pass. So it's a position where you have to be very multi-skilled. But I'd say the hardest part of being in the second row would be being in the scrum. So you are in the middle of the scrum. behind the props you're having to push, you are in a really awkward position, quite a stressful position as well. There's weight coming in up the front. There's weight coming up the back from the number eight as well, and you are in a very low uncomfortable position. So I would say scrummaging was probably the hardest part

Arthur:

if you could have your rugby career all over again, what position would you choose to play?

Jim:

centre.

Arthur:

Why centre?

Jim:

I think it's cool. I think it's a cool position. I think in with the centre, you get many touches of the ball. You are, you have to probably be the best rugby player on the pitch, because you have to be able to defend, you have to be able to carry, you have to be able to distribute, you have to be able to kick, you have to read the game. I just think it's a cool position, like number 10 obviously, right? Would be the easy one to say, like the best players or the highest profile players, Finn Russell. Owen Farrell, Dan Carter, whoever it is. Jonny, the Great Jonny Wilkinson. But I would say centre. Hey, what position do you play?

Arthur:

I play Fly-Half.

Jim:

There you go. And who's your favourite playerer?

Arthur:

I really like Dan Bigger and Marcus Smith

Jim:

Oh, do you? Okay. Why do you like them?

Arthur:

with Dan Bigger. I always love how he leads on the field and a captain as well. And Marcus Smith, I love his flair. On the pitch, he is. Every time he's on the ball, the crowd goes, stands up.

Jim:

Yeah, yeah. So that's good, isn't it, where you've got Yeah, and they, are two very different players as well, so that's cool that you mentioned both of them, like Dan, who we do the podcast with, obviously. he used to shout at his players, get him on. Get him on and ask him that question.'cause he used to shout all his teammates, but that's because he was a fierce competitor and had high standards, so...

Arthur:

what's the be best bit about being a second row?

Jim:

That you are involved in a lot of the things that make the game tick. So Lineout, you're doing kind of skills that are very difficult. So Lineout, kickoff. You know what I mean? Kickoff's one of the hardest skills in rugby. But when you get that and I very rarely did, but when I did my word, it looked good. You go up for the ball and you were, a hundred foot up in the air doing a skill that is very difficult to do. you're involved in charge down. So if the Scrum-Halfs now you love charging down the Scrum-Halfs and you are also allowed, or you were allowed. Are you still allowed? You saw that in the Lions. When Will Skelton and Maro Itoje were grabbing each other? In the second row, you are allowed to do that. Do you know what I mean? there's a bit, it's the second rows, they're allowed to do that. So I did enjoy that part of the game.

Arthur:

What's the biggest challenge you faced as a rugby player?

Jim:

Biggest challenge were injuries, mate. and I say this to young kids, I say this to parents as well. When you play rugby, you're gonna get injured, right? it's not a matter of if it's when, and it's how you deal with them injuries. Mentally, if you're out of contract, if you get injured at the end of your contract and you are worried because it's professional sport and sometimes, it could be difficult, if you break your leg or you do a ligament or something and it's your job. So it's not just a hobby, it's not just something that you love doing. So I'd say the injuries were difficult to deal with. And then towards the end of your career, getting old when you can't actually do what you want to do. Your mind wants to do something, but your body's telling you no and it's had enough. So yeah, I'd say the injuries, but then obviously towards the end of your career. But I'd say retiring mate, when you finish, that's the hardest part.'cause you don't get to do what you love and what you, are known for, which is playing sport.

Arthur:

As you talked about injuries, what was the worst injury that you ever had?

Jim:

Oh, Arthur, do you really want to know that? Yeah, there's, there were a few broken legs. I broke my sternum, which was quite sore. I got handed off by Tagicakibau, who played for London Irish. I was playing for Leicester and, just hit mely, broke my sternum. Had to sleep, sleep upright for about eight weeks. Like with the pillow, I couldn't, lie, down straight. It still gives me issues today. got a finger in the eye by my own player. Had to have my eyelid reconstructed, had 18 stitches to do that. but you wear'em as, as war wounds, as scars of, of stories and each one tells that. But, there's a beauty in that, not an injury, but that's part and parcel of the game, and that's why we play the game as well, because it's tough and not everyone can do it at the highest level. And there's a, kind of romance in that as well.

Arthur:

Do they make you look scary on the picture when you have scars?

Jim:

Oh, they do? Yeah. Yeah. I'm quite lucky or unlucky. I don't have cauliflower ears, but I've got a few scars. You can't see the camera's too good on here. makes me look younger. But yeah, so if it's, if you see some pictures, I've got like holes in my cheekbones and I've got scars and stuff like that, and yeah, there's a part of me that likes it.

Arthur:

Who's the best player you've played with or against?

Jim:

There'd be a few mate. played with some great players. That Saracens team, the likes of Owen Farrell, Owen Farrell, Maro Itoje, the Vunipolas, Brad Barritt, who was the centre, was absolutely phenomenal. He was a brilliant captain. he'd be up there, but I think the best player was a guy. Again, I keep going back to your dad'cause it could have been his era, but James Simpson, Daniel, who I played for Gloucester, where there was a winger. And if you YouTube James Simpson, Daniel Arthur, or your listeners do, he skinned the great Jonah Lomu whilst playing for England. So Jonah Lomu was playing for the Barbarians and James Simpson. Daniel did this thing where he went to throw the ball for a switch, caught it midair, and then skinned the great Jonah Lomu. And he had loads of injuries. But my word, he was a, mercurial talent. He was absolutely world class. So James Simpson Daniel was probably the best player I've ever played with.

Arthur:

You, captained Gloucester, what would you say makes a great captain?

Jim:

yeah, I loved Captaining Gloucester. such great memories there. a team like Leicester where the Rugby's central to the city, probably more so in Gloucester because the football team isn't like Leicester. as a captain, it goes back to the great teams of being honest. I always. Feel like a great captain is someone that can deliver what they say. So I never went in there and said, oh, let's make sure that, our discipline is, amazing. Let's not make sure that, we don't drop the ball or anything like that. I just wanted people to work incredibly hard and give everything that they had to the team, and I think that's what makes a good, a great captain is someone that says what they do.

Arthur:

You played for five different clubs. How did you navigate being the new person in an established squad?

Jim:

it's fairly easy in a rugby team because there's a brotherhood there. it's they're your people, same kind of people, and you are going in there to make the team better. That's why you've been brought in. it takes a while, a few weeks to. Earn the respect, but you do that as soon as you get on the pitch. So you get on the pitch and you play how you've been bought into play. And then it's very quickly to integrate. But all the teams are very similar. you go into any team, it's a group of men, that are all silly, that are all smelly, and, they're out there to play one of the most wonderful games on the planet of rugby. And, you are part of that.

Arthur:

What was your favourite team you've ever played?

Jim:

My favourite team would've been Leicester, the start of my career. they were so good mate. They, we won Premierships, we won Champions Cups. We had players in there that won the World Cup with England. We had icons of the game and just the way that they went about business, mate. They were old school, they were gnarly. You had to earn your stripes, pun intended. You had to earn what it was to play for Leicester and I really liked that old school mentality. And if it wasn't for Leicester mate, I wouldn't be where I am now. I dunno where I would be. So they looked after me as a young man as well, so I can't speak hardly enough for them.

Arthur:

What wisdom do you have now that you wished you had when you started out in Your career.

Jim:

I'd say the value of role models on young men more so than ever. the value of having great coaches and great people around Your life could be tough now navigating through Arthur, especially as, young men. With all of these things, rugby gives you a real foundations of life because if there's a contact element, there's a team element. there's winning, there's losing. You get to travel the world. So I think the, kind of foundations of that and the wisdom that you learn from your fellow players, but also the coaches, the importance of a coach seeing something in you. It doesn't need to be every coach. Not every coach will like you, but the value in a teacher. A coach, a fitness coach, a physio, and having that relationship, for sure is, is something that I value and that's why I'm here. Do you know what I mean? I've got asked to come on here. I think it's important that I share some of these things with someone like you. And if you take something from me or if you take something from flats or anyone that you have on, that's wisdom. And that is also sharing and being part of that group of men. You get many of them people along the way that help you in your journey as growing into a young adult.

Arthur:

Who's the best coach you had and why?

Jim:

Dean Richards, again at Leicester. So Dean Richards was a man of the people. So he was an old school coach, but he treated you like a man. some coaches will treat you as if like they're older and you are younger and quite headmaster, they're the teacher if you are the pupil. Whereas Dean Richards leveled with you and valued you as a, man and, It is different. You get different coaches, some like you make, some don't. And I went through my career, had some coaches that love me and I had some coaches that really, dislike me and that's part of life. But I say that Dean Richards, and Dean Ryan as well, who coached Scotland, for one six Nations in 2013, and we finished the highest we've ever finished. And I thought he was a great coach as well.

Arthur:

Thank you. what was your favourite moment of your rugby career?

Jim:

My favourite moment was my 50th cap for Scotland. not just to make 50 caps, but I had my son there, Jack James, JJ with me, my first born child. And, you start rugby without children and then as you grow into a young man and you get married, you have children. not everyone, some people, but we did. And to get to run out at Murrayfield playing for Scotland, which I absolutely adored an evening game against Australia. singing the anthem holding my son was something that I'll never forget and that's what stands out. But there were many, mate, I won the Champions Cup. There were some big moments, but the one that stands out is definitely doing that with, my son, playing for the country that I love.

Arthur:

What do you miss most about playing rugby?

Jim:

My mates. Yeah, I think it's, you'll know being at school, being in the team that you are in. Nothing better than being out there with your mates, right? Winning, losing, learning. The ups, the downs, the feeling of being together. you'll never replicate that again. What? And that's why a lot of players my age, when they retire, they, go back out there and they do it, and they play these games and these charity games and they're all old and their bones are all broken. But mate, I miss the boys, I miss my friends. yeah, I miss the men. That would be the number one thing.

Arthur:

Do you talk to a lot of them still today?

Jim:

Not as much as I should. Not as much as we should. I try to, I, reach out to them, but everyone's busy. They've got children they've got families. We're in this midlife. Again, I keep referencing your dad. Your dad will know you're in this middle period of hustling and working out what's next. But yeah, you should, we should chat more. And Arthur, after this, maybe I will, I'll start reaching out to a few of the other ones.

Arthur:

How did you go from a rugby player to a podcast presenter?

Jim:

I dunno, mate, I dunno how it happened. you know what? I, it happened organically. It happened naturally. I wanted to do a podcast on rugby. I listened to podcasts before podcasts were even podcasts, mate. so I used to travel, listen to crime podcasts. listened to Joe Rogan, who obviously has got the biggest podcast in the world. So I listened to when he was doing a UFC podcast and thought, oh, you know what? There's some great characters in this game, some brilliant people that no one knows about. People just think, we're just idiots going around playing a sport that no one understands, and there's so many cool people and cool stories. So we started 10 years ago and we never knew what it would turn into, and it's turned into this and inspiring people like you to do your own show. and other people as well. So yeah, it happened naturally, mate. And that's been the real beauty in what we've done.

Arthur:

Thank you.

Jim:

You were two when we started. You were two years old. Sorry. just, put it out there. I know you're a youngster. I know you were listening back then

Arthur:

What did you enjoy, about most about doing your podcasts?

Jim:

just chatting about rugby. Just chatting, doing it with mates, naturally. and chatting about the game that gave me so much and not thinking too much about it. I don't think too much about it. We turn up every week. it's a joy. and I love the fact that we make a lot of people happy. it was never meant to be a thing, sometimes when you stop and think I have to now,'cause you've asked me the question, it's just really cool. It's, a cool thing to do. It's free. People can listen to podcasts for free. People will listen to this for free, and you get to meet some brilliant people along the way, which I have done with my own podcast and with the rugby one that I've done. and you all know that when you go on your journey, do you know what I mean? The fact that we can do this and then you'll publish it, and for the world to listen to, and the world to see for free. It's a, really cool concept.

Arthur:

Who would you say is your favourite player you've had on your podcast?

Jim:

oh. Who's my favourite player? We've had on the rugby pod. We've had many, so we've had loads and loads, so I could, I could pick any from that. I think for me personally, I got to interview Pieter steph du toit in Japan last year, so I went to a lovely place called Nagoya, where he's playing. And it was off the back of the World Cup where South Africa won the World Cup. And he put in arguably one of the greatest performances, that we've ever seen in the World Cup final. I think he made like 27 tackles, let's call it 30 tackles. And I went to Nagoya, I went to Japan to interview a lot of players. Ardie Savea Eddie Jones, Damian de Allende Ande, Brodie Retallick. And I couldn't wait to meet pieter steph du toit. Not that he's a hero of mine, but he's an icon of the game. He's an incredible athlete. And it was one of them where don't meet your heroes. And because they don't live up to what you'd want them to be or what they are, he was everything you'd hoped he'd be just a brilliant, warm human being and a fantastic player. So he's the one that kind of sticks out for me, his pieter steph du toit.

Arthur:

Thank you. And if it's okay, could I do a quick fire round?

Jim:

Oh, of course you can do whatever you want, mate. It's your show

Arthur:

So what was your favourite match?

Jim:

favourite match would have been against Ireland in Croke Park in 2010. They were on for a grand slam and we beat'em, and I played and got man of the match. I might not have got man of the match, but just for this, we say I did

Arthur:

And what's your favourite trophy?

Jim:

My favourite trophy was winning. The A-League for Leicester with all my mates and Matt Hampson. Matt Hampson is in a wheelchair now. He's a, quadriplegic for doing amazing things with the Matt Hampson Foundation. Matt Hampson was playing, I mentioned Harry was playing. So all them guys I mentioned at the start of the show, we won the A-League for Leicester. I still remember like it was yesterday. It was brilliant.

Arthur:

And who was your, who was, what was your favourite try you've ever scored?

Jim:

No, I didn't score many. I did not score many, but I'm gonna say there was a hat trick against India back in the day. I scored three tries against India, which was iconic. So I'd say then, but also my one try for Scotland away in Argentina. we won the series down there. yeah, so my one try for Scotland was probably my favourite try.

Arthur:

And what was your favourite meal before a game?

Jim:

favourite meal porridge, pasta, chicken. Lots of carbs, mate. You shouldn't eat too many carbs when you get old, you're fine to eat them now, but I would say I used to love porridge and honey and peanut butter. Just, yeah, something that could fill you up. Used to love that.

Arthur:

Thank you. And last question, who of your rugby mates would you recommend to be on my podcast?

Jim:

Who else have you had on? Who's been your favourite so far?

Arthur:

All of them really. They've all been so good and brilliant.

Jim:

Tell me who you want. Who do you want? Who would be your dream guest? It doesn't matter what I think. Yeah.

Arthur:

probably Siya Kolisi or I'd quite Maro Itoje.

Jim:

There you go. I'm sure we can make it happen, mate, because this podcast is going somewhere. So it's, I've had Siya Kolisi on the show before. He's a brilliant, human being. He's a guy that has, It is called transcended the Game, like you talk about icons of sport. He's an icon of South Africa and he's just a brilliant, human being. So I'm sure at some point you'll get Siya Kolisi

Arthur:

And I just wanna say thanks so much for taking your time to our podcast. I really appreciate it

Jim:

anytime. It's an honour for me to be on Arthur. Thank you.

Arthur:

and I love watching your podcast. They're brilliant on, on Spotify, TikTok, and Instagram.

Jim:

Thanks mate. That's, I, appreciate the plug there. The more listeners, the better. Thank you.