Jack Nowell: Forging a Career at Exeter and Beyond

Jack Nowell’s journey from the Cornish coast to the international rugby stage is packed with surprises, challenges, and lessons every young player can learn from. In this episode, Arthur sits down with the England and British & Irish Lions star to uncover the real stories behind his career.

From an unexpected switch in sports to becoming one of the game’s most recognisable wingers, Jack shares how belief, adaptability, and hard work shaped his success. You’ll hear about the coaches who inspired him, the teammates who pushed him, and the pivotal moments that changed the course of his career.

We explore the highs of Lions tours, the lows of brutal injuries, and the truth about life as a pro rugby player. Jack also opens up about his family-first mindset, the importance of preparation, and what young players really need to know to make it to the top.

This episode is part inspiration, part reality check – and it’s packed with advice and stories you won’t hear anywhere else.

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Transcript

Arthur: 0:03

Hi everyone. I'm Arthur Dickins and it's my Rugby Legends podcast. In each episode, interview an amazing rugby player or coach to get the insight and advice young for young rugby players just like me who are keen to learn and get better. In this episode, I'm speaking with Jack Nowell, Exeter, La Rochelle and England Lion's Winger. Jack won two Premiership titles and a European Cup at Exeter. He has been capped by England 46 times and winning the Grand Slam in 2016. Jack also played in two tests for Lions in New Zealand in 2017. Jack currently plays in his rugby in La Rochelle, in France. Under head Coach Ronan O'Gara. I hope find Jack's knowledge and wisdom as helpful as I did. Enjoy. So Jack, what other sports did you play growing up and at what age did you give him up for rugby?

Jack: 1:03

probably a lot of kids growing up. I tried, every sport. I think probably my main ones were, I think my main other sport was swimming. I used to swim quite a lot as a kid. I used to swim for my swimming club back home. did a few competitions and stuff, and I think, I got to about 16, where I had to make the decision where I go, push on with my swimming and, take that a bit more seriously, or, do the same with rugby. but I'd say rugby and swimming with my main two. I tried to do everything. Football, cricket, football. Yeah. I tried football. I wish I was good at football. but I wasn't the best. yeah, obviously, by 16 I I started to do, rugby a bit more Seriously.

Arthur: 1:51

Do you support football team?

Jack: 1:53

I'm a bit of a bit of a fake football, supporter. I think whoever has the nicest shirt out that season, I'd probably support that team. I think Arsenal winning at the moment. Shirts pretty, cool at the minute.

Arthur: 2:04

What made you choose rugby over these other sports?

Jack: 2:08

I think for me, I felt swimming was very individual. obviously you did a little bit of team stuff with your relays and things like that, and you traveled as a squad, once you're in that pool, you are very much, by yourself. So I was always, attracted to the, team sport and I certainly found that a lot more enjoyable. obviously being with rugby, it's the, it is the ultimate team sport, isn't it? And you are, with 14 other guys on that field and, and then training you with the boys and they become your best friends and, so I was naturally drawn to, to rugby a lot more, a lot, more.

Arthur: 2:47

When did you know that you are going to make it as a professional?

Jack: 2:51

Oh, I dunno. That's a tough question. That one. for me growing up, I never thought it would happen to me. you see all these, you look at all these, tv, all these rugby stars on TV and things like that. And you think, no way that's gonna happen to me. I'm from Penzance in Cornwall, which is the, bottom of England. And so for me growing up it was always just playing for fun and just playing with my mates. And, at 16-17 I went to Troy College. and for me I was quite lucky it worked out with good timing.'cause Exeter Chiefs obviously got promoted to the premiership, when I was 17. So I was in my second year of college. And Troy College was part of the Exeter Academy at the time. And they said to me then, if you have a good couple of seasons, potentially there could be a contract at the end of it for you. And even then I was a bit like, I might, I'll be lucky to maybe get one year, maybe two years at this team. I'd probably never, ever play for them. I'll just see how it goes for two years and then we'll go from there. So yeah, probably about 17, 18 when, I got to the end of my college, life and, then, I had a, good chat with, Exeter Chiefs and Rob Baxter and they offered me a three year deal. even when I signed it, mate, to be perfectly honest with you, I thought, there's still no way I'm gonna, I'm gonna make this, I'm gonna do everything I can do to make it. there's so many good players out there. And I'm only 16. I'm only, 17, 18. And. You, there's no way I'm gonna be able to play for, this great team. And yeah. So it probably wasn't even into my second contract when I, my second year of my contract where I got, my first team, debut, against London Irish. and then I was a bit like, oh God, here we go. This is, getting exciting now.

Arthur: 4:35

And as you said, you had your first team debut. How did that feel?

Jack: 4:39

I think, growing up as a kid, and like I said, then you've seen all these, professional rugby players on the TV playing for England, and then you're playing against London Irish. And I think at the time there was a couple of, international players playing for London, Irish. And again, even at that stage I was a bit like, I'm 18 years old. I, out my, there's so many questions that go through your head. Are you good enough or are you out of your depth? Are you, are you, should you be here? Do you deserve to be here? And so obviously there's a lot of nerves. But at the same time, I think for me, the, kind of excitement took over once, once I got to the match day. And for me it was a game that, I certainly will never forget.

Arthur: 5:15

Thank you. When did you know that winger was your position and was this your decision or did it come from a coach?

Jack: 5:24

it came from a coach. It wasn't actually my, decision mate. So I was, I was always a fullback, growing up as soon as I got into men's rugby. I started men's rugby when I was 16, and I always played fullback. I never played on the wing before. and then at the time when, obviously I was the Exeter Chiefs, we had a, pretty good Fullback at the time who was, one of our, one of our best players on the field. He was one of our leaders. and, AHefer,th, our coach at, the time then said to me, we want you both on the field at the same time. How would you feel if you. if we put you on the wing, we'll put you, we'll give you the number. 14 jersey and, yeah, like obviously the nerves were there, but, at that stage of my career, I was just so thankful to be given this opportunity to, play in the first team for Exeter Chiefs. for me, they could have put me in the, back row and I could have been wearing number seven. I didn't mind, as long as I was on that field and I was, I was playing with the team, I was more than happy and, if it wasn't for that move of hi of him.'cause obviously I spoke to him quite a lot before the game thing put me in the wing and he. He believed I could do it. He believed that I could, make that position mine. and obviously all these years later, I look back at that and think, if I wasn't put on the wing at that stage, I probably wouldn't have made it to, to where I am now.

Arthur: 6:39

What do you love so much about Winger?

Jack: 6:42

I think for me, I, very old school, traditional wingers, very much a very fast. stay on your wing, you score some good tries in the, corners and things like that. for me, my coach at the time said to me, you're not, gonna be one of those wingers. You're not, you're not one of the fastest, I back you to be one of the strongest I back you to work harder than anybody else. And, I made that position, my own, I felt he never, he told me, I don't want you on the wing. I want you to come off wherever you wanna go. You can play around the scrum half, play around the fly, half, get your hands on the ball, with the forwards. just'cause you've got number 14 on your back doesn't mean I want you to stay on your wing. to be able to give him that license to, to roam the field and do what I want to do and get my hands on the ball as many times as possible, it was, it, certainly, relieved me a little bit of that pressure. yeah, I think, I think I've, I, really enjoyed playing in that position.

Arthur: 7:40

Thank you, and as you said, you score loads of good tries on the wing, I was watching, I tried to mate, I tried to, a couple videos. I was watching this video against Sale sharks where somebody grubbered it and then you ran and it was a close try corner and you touched it down and dived.

Jack: 8:00

they're always, they're always the nice ones when someone else does the work for you and you are just, lucky enough to dot the ball down over the line.

Arthur: 8:09

Exactly which players inspired you growing up and what was inspiring about them?

Jack: 8:15

do you know what I, I'll be honest, I didn't watch a lot of rugby when I was growing up. I wasn't one of those, I wasn't a super fan of rugby. I enjoyed watching it now and again, I didn't really watch a lot of, international games or anything just because, where we lived in Cornwall, it was very much, local rugby and, I remember going to watch the Cornish pirates down at the local rugby field and things like that and some of the senior games, but that wasn't obviously the top level. for me growing up, I didn't actually watch quite a lot of rugby. But, some of my first memories would be. watching someone like Jason Robinson, and seeing what he can do on the field and that feeling of when he got the ball, you knew he was gonna do something, you knew he was gonna do something special. obviously I'm a very different player to, to Jason Robinson, but, that excitement, I wanna try and bring that across when people are watching me that, I can create something for the team. I can do something that people are gonna wanna watch. so yeah, someone like Jason Robinson again as a winger, I used to like watching someone like Sebastian Chabal. You might not know who he is, he played for France, he played for Sale sharks, and again, he was the other side of the ball. he's, his attack was good, but his defense was what I really liked watching, he used to smash people. and when you get that big hit and you have that feeling of your teammate having a big hit, it certainly brings the energy as well. those sort of people that. Bring the energy in the game and, create stuff like that is these people that I used to like watching.

Arthur: 9:48

How did you manage your nerves before big game?

Jack: 9:52

I think I learned very quickly the fact that I know there was no point wasting energy on, on, on nervous for the game. There's no need to be nervous, Everyone has a bad game now and again, nobody's perfect. And, and I think, as soon as you start worrying about what might happen, you then start concentrating on what you can actually do in the game.'cause there's no point worrying about something that hasn't even happened yet. So there's no point being nervous on something in the game where you, oh, I might make a mistake, I might do something wrong. I learned quite quickly when I was younger to try and flip that because, I remember when I was younger, my first few games being very nervous, and then by the time the game came I was, quite tired and, mentally tired. and then I would finish the game and I would play well and I would be like, oh, there was no point worrying about things in the game that might have happened'cause they haven't happened. I've played pretty well that I should be happy with myself. so for me, I've always tried to stay positive and always try and remember that. I'm a good rugby player. I do good things on the field and I try and focus on those sort of things opposed to mistakes. And, like I said, everyone makes a mistake. No one's perfect in a game, which taught me to, when I do make my mistakes in a game, I move on quite quickly and I try and do something positive, quite quickly after.

Arthur: 11:03

It is very helpful. What is the best piece of advice a coaches gave you?

Jack: 11:08

Best piece of advice? probably a bit cliche, probably. You've probably had this a lot, but, have fun. Make sure you're having fun. if you're not having fun, there's no point doing it. even now when I'm in these big games and I'm, playing against some of the best players in the world, the reason why I started rugby was'cause I was playing with my best mates. I was having fun with them. it certainly doesn't feel like a job for me even now. so yeah, if you're not having fun, there's no point doing it. And, I was very lucky that, I wasn't pushed when I was younger. I just, naturally enjoyed it. yeah, I'm, always having fun when I'm on the field and I'm always smiling. Even when you're losing, you're still very lucky I still feel very lucky to be out there, and, still a chance to, give, to bring the game back and win. another good bit of advice I learned was become very good friends with your fly half and scrum half, because they're the guys that are gonna give you the ball. So make sure you know those two inside out,

Arthur: 12:06

fly half. Perfect.

Jack: 12:08

There you go. we'll be best mates, then.

Arthur: 12:11

Jack, you played in a very, successful Exeter team. Also a grand Slam winning England team. What makes a great team?

Jack: 12:20

Oh, the, I've never been asked that question before. That's a good question. what makes a good team? I think off the field. Off the field, relationships are very important. I believe that if you, become very good friends off the field, you are certainly willing to work extra harder for your teammates. you are willing to put everything on the line to, to, win that game. Whether that's a, trial like we spoke about, whether that's a try saving tackle in the corner, you are willing to, give that little bit more to make sure that you're doing everything you can do to win for that team. I think for me, certainly at Exeter, I'm, I grew up with a lot of those players and, I, for example, Luke Cowan-Dickie, me and Luke Cowan-Dickie have played together since we were five. the year we left Exeter was the, same year. So that was the year we, stopped playing with each other, but that was from five years old to 29 years old. it's a long time. So he knows me very well. I know him very well. And when you are, when you're winning together and you're lifting trophies, everything becomes worth it. And you look across and you've got your best mates there, and you're doing, and you've achieved these things with those boys. yeah, there's honestly no better feeling than that. So I think, relationships off the field and it's not, they're not hard, that they're not, easy to build. Sorry. You've got to, you've got a, you've got a work of that. a lot of people think, when you get signed for a club and if you're lucky enough to be signed by Exeter Chiefs, you feel straight in and then you start playing really well. It's, quite hard. You, need to build those relationships off the field quite quickly. And, I've learned that moving to La Rochelle a couple of years ago, not knowing anybody that played here, But now even, being here for two, two and a bit years, I feel like some of these boys are my best friends now. rugby's a, is a brilliant game where you can fit straight in and you can, you have something in common straight away. You have the, a common goal that you want to achieve together. So yeah, I think it's brilliant.

Arthur: 14:15

How did you do that?

Jack: 14:17

I think it's very much, the coach is a, big part of that. You need to make, time in your, week, for boys to gel, for boys to get together. for me, I'm a very sociable person as well, so I like getting out. I've got a family, I've got three kids, my wife, coming here, the boys made me feel very welcome. getting our kids together, getting the wives together. you, feel you've become part of the team quite quickly and, Ronan O'Gara is our, is obviously our head coach and, he, is very family driven and, he, I never forget, the first thing he said to me when I came here was, if your wife and your kids aren't settled, I don't want to see you in the club. I only want you to come into the club when your family is settled'cause he knows how important, family and friends are for me that's very much something that I want to give and, drive for as well.'cause for me, family's very important.

Arthur: 15:13

So Jack, what do you think Makes you successful?

Jack: 15:17

Very much from a hardworking background, I think, my, my dad's a fisherman, they, that's an extremely hard job for them. probably a bit too hard for me. but, I dunno, I think I was, brought up, to, be with this hardworking family. I was brought up to, respect my friends, my family, And, growing up and seeing, being with my dad and things like that, he'd done absolutely everything for that he could do to make our lives, as comfortable. me and my two other brothers and my sister, for our lives to be as comfortable as possible. And, sometimes that sacrifice was him being away at sea for a lot of times and, not seeing him a lot growing up. But, I under, I understand now that I'm older and I have my own family that, they're all sacrifices. You got, you've got to make to. To, be able to have your family, safe and, and, ready for, anything. I think now I've got my own family. it's certainly changed my mentality a lot about why I play and why I, turn up the training every day and why I put my body on the line every weekend because, at the start, and for me, it still hasn't changed. I play for fun. I play to be with my mates. it's certainly, one of the best feelings in the world, but. at the same time now after having kids, I'm, doing things where I need to make their lives as comfortable as possible. And, sometimes I do sit back and have a look and, we're living in France, we're, in with beautiful weather, my kids are, fluent French now, which is, awesome to, to see and to be able to see them speak it.'cause they're a lot better at the language than I am. and they're all the perks of why you do this and why you do that every weekend.'cause there are a few dark bits in rugby that, you need to get through, injuries, losses, for me in my career, injuries has been, up there a lot. the amount of, niggles and injuries I've, picked up. But, it makes it all worth it at the end when you see your kids smiling and your kids thriving. So yeah, it's, for me it's, family's the most important thing.

Arthur: 17:25

thank you. And as you said, your dad was a fisherman. Do you fish a lot?

Jack: 17:31

I'm a fake fisherman mate. I, when I was younger, I used to go out at my rod and my reel. but that's probably about as far as I go because, I remember growing up and seeing some of the videos on my dad's phone of them being out in sea in storms and horrible weather, freezing cold and that's, luckily for me, I've, always had rugby to get my teeth into. if it wasn't for rugby, maybe I'd be out there fishing as well. But yeah, I've never, experienced a, trip outta sea yet.

Arthur: 18:02

Have you, caught any, big fish with your rod?

Jack: 18:06

Not, any. I'm proud of to be honest. the, fish, the fishing things I catch at the moment is when I go crabbing down at the rock pools with my, two girls and my son. that's as far as I go for fishing at the minute.

Arthur: 18:18

Thank you. To any young and aspiring wingers out there, what's one piece of advice you would give them?

Jack: 18:25

Oh, good question. I think a lot like we spoke about, I think. Remember why you started playing rugby. that you are obviously enjoying it. It's why you're doing it. so don't forget that, as long as you're out on the field enjoying it, it doesn't matter what level you're at. because at the end of the day, it's fun. It's fun what you're doing. If you're having fun, you're more likely to play well. so yeah, that side of it's brilliant that I think,'cause again, like I said, for me, I'm doing it as a job, but I don't feel it as a job. I'm still having fun with my best mates and. I look back at when I was, your age and when I was younger, and, for me that was some of the best times of, playing rugby, going away on, on club trips with your best mates, going away on school trips with your, school friends and playing all these different teams at rugby. it's, brilliant. So I think, yeah, like I said, as long as you're having fun, you've got a smile on your face, you are, you're gonna achieve some good things.

Arthur: 19:22

Which other position in the team do you rely on the most?

Jack: 19:26

Oof, probably a bit, like I mentioned before, for me, scrum half, fly half, are very important. and like I said, I'm not, a player that, that likes to stay on my wing a lot. So I do like to come around the scrum half and around the fly half and see if I can get my hands on the ball as much as possible.'cause the, scrum half's obviously the big link between the forwards and the backs. I think you've gotta have a really good. relationship with your Fullback and your other winger.'cause they're the guys when you're out there, they're gonna help you a lot. And a lot of the times my Fullback that I'm playing with makes me look good. yeah, I think for me, scrum half, fly half, and, your fullback are, important guys that you need to be on the field with.

Arthur: 20:08

What was the facet of rugby, which was your particular strength growing up?

Jack: 20:13

think that's always the, that's always the main thing when you're playing rugby, isn't it? Yeah, I've gone through many different strategies of not being able to get tackled. I used to catch the ball on one side of the field, run around my whole team behind them, and then try and run up the other wing, until I used to get told off by my coach.'cause he said, you can't do that forever, Jack. you need to try start running forward. but I think for me it's probably, that's led on to then the way I play rugby now. I think it's, your footwork and your, being able to step players and especially when you're going against some of those bigger boys on the field, some of those forwards, those big hairy forwards, you need to, I don't wanna be squashed by them. yeah, my footwork before that, trying to step them, and make some of the bigger boys look silly. and then probably one of my main things is, my strength after I have been tackled, or I've been half tackled, to be able to, bust through those, tackles and try and make a, a few more meters for the team.

Arthur: 21:09

As you talked about stepping people, what was your favorite step?

Jack: 21:14

I had a good one last season where one of the we were playing against Perpignan and, a big scary Fijian came flying out the line. And I was lucky enough to step in and get around the outside of him and I went down the wing. but maybe one of my favorite steps has been, probably for my try in against the wasps in the 2000, I think it was 16 final. where Luke Cowan-Dickie gave me the ball on the inside and I had a little step round the winger, and then got into the corner and scored our first try. So yeah, probably, that one.

Arthur: 21:46

Thank you. Jack. Who's the best player you've played with or against?

Jack: 21:51

I feel I've been very lucky to play with and against some, some amazing players. I think. certainly this year I would say someone like Will Skelton, I'm sure everyone's seen what he's, what he did in the, in, in the tests against the Lions. but he's a brilliant player to play with. he and a horrible player to play against as, we've all seen. But yeah, he's, obviously so big and so strong, but. Again, his skills are very good. He, takes about four or five defenders to stop him. So it make, gives us a lot, more room on the edge. Manu Tuilagi at the same time, I really like playing with Manu Tuilagi again'cause he's strong. Makes things happen very hard to tackle. But yeah, probably, I've obviously played against Manu, a few times as well, so I'd say yeah, Manu's probably one of the hard people to, play against'cause I do not tackling him.

Arthur: 22:43

What is the best thing about being a professional rugby player?

Jack: 22:47

To be honest, mate, I still don't look at myself as a professional rugby player. obviously it's my job and it, pays the bills and things like that. But, I, really don't look at it as that. I get to, go Monday to Friday into a, rugby environment where, we have, one of the best gyms, we have some of the best rugby fields, some of the best coaches in the world, and, I get to play rugby, I get to learn every day from these other people. I get to. Go in the gym and stay in shape. And then obviously the ultimate side to it is that Saturday, Sunday, when you come to Match Day and I get to play in front of, 18,000, 18,000 people at the Stade Deflandre here in, in France. And it's surreal. Sometimes you look around and you think, I'm getting paid for this. for me, I, don't look at it as that. I still look at it as the, as when I was five years old when I started that I'm playing with my best friends, I'm having fun. and at the end of the day I'm chucking a rugby ball around the field. and it's as simple as that. So that's the way I still look at it now.

Arthur: 23:53

What is the worst thing about being a professional rugby player?

Jack: 23:56

I think for me it's probably been, spending time away from the family's tough, I think. the Lions tour I went to, which I was lucky enough to be selected for against New Zealand. you're away for nine weeks, six nations, you're away for seven weeks. but at the same time, at the same time you're representing your country and things like that. So again, that's about the sacrifices that, that I mentioned at the start. I think probably the main, the worst thing for me has probably been my injuries and stuff that I've gone through for my career. touch wood, I'm still good now. I'm still going, but I've had, 11 operations now. so I've had a, a fair few of operation, operations. luckily I've come back from more, I'm, in good shape still. I'm still able to play, there's a lot of people out there that aren't as lucky as what position I'm in at the minute. but yeah, probably mentally trying to get through those injuries and coming, trying to get back fitter and better again. And, when you pick up another injury again, it seems tough at the time, but you're always gonna get through it and you're always gonna be okay at the end of it. So that's what I've learned. Yeah, for me, probably the, fair few injuries that I've had so far.

Arthur: 25:04

As you talked about the Lions Tour, what was your favorite game you played on the Lions Tour?

Jack: 25:09

playing in that second test was, big, getting my cap and things like that. I think, for me it was playing against the Chiefs in the last midweek game, I think. Because, everything went our way. I was lucky enough to score two trys. but we as a team played really, well. And, we were always winning that game. So it was a very enjoyable game to be, part of.

Arthur: 25:33

And did you watch the Lions tour? This, this, this year?

Jack: 25:37

I did watch it. It was, it was very exciting. I thought. the way Lions started was, brilliant. But I think, Australia have some, brilliant players and they were certainly the underdogs going into this and you see the way they fought in the second test, it was awesome to see the lions win it and the second test, but I think, if Australia, just snuck it at the end, I think that third test would've been even more exciting for both teams. So yeah, I did, watch it. I thought it was brilliant. Did you enjoy it?

Arthur: 26:05

Yeah, I loved it as well. Who do you think it should have been? Three nil.

Jack: 26:08

I think the results were justified to be honest. I would've loved to have it to be three nil. there's no better than, given the Aussies a whitewash. But I think, a bit more so now of being sitting back and being a bit more of a neutral and just enjoying rugby for what it is. I think it, it made it to be very exciting. I think Australia, deserved to win at the end of it, especially the way they played in that second test. And, even more so the way they played in the third test. Yeah, I think a two one win for the Lions was, just a

Arthur: 26:37

And who would've got your player of the tournament?

Jack: 26:39

yeah, I think Tom Curry would've got my, my, my player

Arthur: 26:42

why?

Jack: 26:45

I, obviously have, I've been lucky enough to play with Tom Curry. I know how good he is a player. As a player. I know how professional he is. And yeah, honestly, playing with, someone like Tom Curry, he makes your job very, easy on the field.'cause he does a lot of the hard work that a lot of people don't see. and he's horrible to play against, he's so strong over the ball and he's gonna turn it over and things like that. So he's a, player that you always need to be aware of. yeah, I think, yeah. Tom Curry.

Arthur: 27:13

Thank you. How have you found moving to France and playing rugby in the top 14?

Jack: 27:19

I've really, enjoyed it. I think, for me it's something I've always wanted to do. I'd love to have, I've stayed with Exeter, my whole career. But, unfortunately things don't always work out the way you want it to do. And, for me, I've was very keen to get my family, this is not the rugby side of, it's the life side of it. I'd like to get my family experience different things, experience different cultures, yeah, I think, yeah, moving to France is, has been brilliant for my family. I think rugby wise, I believe at the moment that the top 14 is probably the best competition in the world to do with rugby. no, I certainly believe that we've got some of the best players over here playing in the world at the minute in this competition. every single weekend's a big test. you go from one week against playing against Toulon, to the next week playing Toulouse, where you've got someone like, DuPont, who's probably the best player in the world at the minute. you've, it's a challenge. It has been a challenge. it probably took me a good few months to be settled and to find my way a little bit. but again, like I said, like the team made me feel very welcome. Coming over here. The team are very ambitious. We want to win things, which is certainly why I wanted to come over as well.'cause, I'm desperate to win the top 14 and, hopefully get another trophy under my belt. Yeah, I think it's been really good and it's been successful so far, and hopefully this season we can actually win a few trophies.

Arthur: 28:42

Have you been learning a bit more French?

Jack: 28:45

I've been really trying mate, honestly. and it's so disappointing to, dis yeah, disappointed, but also a sense of pride that I try and use some of my French, speaking to my daughter and my eldest daughter Nori, who's seven. And she corrects the way I pronounce the words and the way I send, she goes, oh, daddy know you need to say it like this. And I'm like, Ugh. I, look at her and I'm like, I'm very proud of you. But at the same time, I'm, very jealous of how easy and how well you've picked up being able to speak French and, yeah. I'm trying to learn, but it's, a very hard language to, to learn.

Arthur: 29:24

And What are you most proud of in your rugby career to date?

Jack: 29:29

I think, yeah, being able to come home every day and see my kids smiling. I love that the fact that my family fly over from, England to come and watch me play at our stadium and the, atmosphere that they're being able to, experience and be part of. And, after you've won a big game, you get to go see them in the stands after and you see them all smiling and yeah, my old man with a pint in his hand and he's all happy that, we've won the game. yeah, I think, for me it's just, yeah, being able to see my family happy and like I said, like the, trophies and winning the games and winning big competitions is important to me,'cause at the end of the day, I want to win these trophies with my mates, but at the same time, I think, yeah, as long as my family happy, I'm gonna be given a lot more. And, I'm also fully aware that, if it isn't for my teammates, if it wasn't for my teammates at Exeter that, that we spoke about before, the boys that I've played with since I was five years old. I, wouldn't have gone on to play for England. I wouldn't have gone on to play for the lions.'cause at the end of the day, they're the boys that, make you look good and they're the boys that you play with every single week. And if I'm looking good it's'cause we're winning and we're playing well and those boys are being good. And, that leads on to the, them playing for England.'cause the England coaches looking at you, and then going onto the lions is because the lion selectors are looking at you playing for your country. so yeah, I think I'm very proud of my family and I'm very proud of, my mates that I, started with.

Arthur: 30:58

Thank you. And I wanna say thanks so much for being a podcast. I really appreciate you taking your time.

Jack: 31:04

You are very welcome mate. I've, I've obviously followed your podcast since speaking with you and, yeah, I like your work, mate. You've had some good guests on it's, you are, you're very good at what you do, mate. I feel very privileged To, to, be asked of you on your podcast, mate. So thank you very much.