Rugby Legends with Arthur Dickins

Greig Laidlaw on Captaincy, Decision-Making and Half-Back Mastery

• Arthur Dickins • Season 1 • Episode 7

Share episode

Greig Laidlaw’s rugby brain is one of the sharpest the game has ever seen. This episode dives into what really goes into being a captain, goal-kicker, and decision-maker at the highest level.

From his early days in Scotland to leading his country through epic Six Nations clashes, Laidlaw breaks down the pressure moments that defined him. He opens up about how to earn team trust, how to make calm calls when the crowd’s roaring, and why confidence isn’t always loud.

There’s deep insight here—not just about rugby but about leadership, discipline, and how to thrive under pressure. You’ll also hear about his best partnerships on the field, what makes a great scrum-half, and why preparation beats nerves every single time.

To find out more about these things, give Rugby Legends a subscribe and follow

Email us at contact@rugby-legends.com
 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rugbylegends_podcast/
TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@rugby.legends.podcast
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/0kZnO74lv26gUwcPqJrH99
Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rugby-legends-with-arthur-dickins/id1816056223
Podcast Website - https://rugbylegends.podbean.com/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/rugby-legends-podcast/

Speaker:

Hi everyone. I'm Arthur Dickins and this is my Rugby Legends podcast. In each episode, interview an amazing rugby player or coach to get their insight and advice for young rugby players just like me who are keen to learn it better. In this episode, I'm speaking with Greig Laidlaw ex Edinburgh Gloucester, Clermont. And Scotland Scrum half. Greig is a legend of the Scottish game, a dynamic scrum half and sometimes fly half, who was also a first choice goal kicker. In 76 appearances for Scotland, he scored over 700 points. Greig holds the record for the most appearances as a captain of the Scotland men's team, he led the national side 40 times between 2013 and 2019. I hope you find Greig's knowledge and wisdom as helpful as I did. Enjoy.

Arthur:

So Greig, how did you get into rugby and how old where you when you started?

Greig:

I got into rugby probably'cause of my family. I have, I had three cousins, who were all boys. and they all loved the game. and then I think I was about six years old, so I was pretty young. but yeah, I just loved the game where I grew up in Scotland. I thought it was like a, quite a small community, and a lot of the stuff revolved, around, around about rugby. So yeah. Great. Some great memories.

Arthur:

That's very interesting. Thank you. And what other sports did you play growing up and at what age did you give them up for rugby?

Greig:

Yeah, I played lots of sports, which I truly believe is a great thing. I played football, golf, tennis, probably bit of badminton stuff at school. I played, yeah, so I played quite a diverse range of sports. I think I probably gave them up maybe around 16, all the other ones. quite late. I did like to try and play. I, was gonna, I thought about playing football at one point, but I, stuck to rugby, but I still try and play golf, now as well, but not as good as I used to. And what about you, Arthur? Do you play any other sports?

Arthur:

I play golf, cricket, rugby, hockey.

Greig:

That's, a good range. I truly believe it's, you playing lots of different sports. it's, you can also always learn something from, another sport. So, it's a really good thing to be able to do.

Arthur:

as you said, you played a load of sports. What one was your favourite except from rugby?

Greig:

yeah, either golf or football. Prob probably golf, but I was just, never good enough. I got a little bit frustrated at times.

Arthur:

Did you have a handicap?

Greig:

Yeah, I did, at one point, I, played off eight. was about the best I got down to, so what about yourself? You got a handicap or?

Arthur:

yeah. I'm 14.1.

Greig:

Oh 0.1, huh? There you go. That means you're definitely into it, if you're counting the point ones. What about your cricket or what where you good at cricket?

Arthur:

yeah, I'm a all rounder in cricket. okay. Did you play cricket? Nah, we, I never played at cricket, it's probably not played as much up here, up here, but in, in Scotland, obviously it's played loads here in Australia. but yeah, nah, I never played much Thank you. And when did you know that you were really good at rugby?

Greig:

once you maybe start getting selected in a few representative teams, something like that, I ended up from memory, playing for Scotland under eighteens or in my regional area as well. You get picked up for the eighteens, the under sixteens. I think when you start to get asked to play in teams like that, you realize you. You, you've got some potential obviously. and, I think that was probably the time I realised that. And I was quite lucky I guess when I was growing up.'cause obviously when I was really young, rugby wasn't professional. I think it turned professional when I was about 10 years old in 1995. So it was a great time for me because obviously I could see the, evolution of, the game of rugby going professional and it's something I dreamed of. I dunno what your aspirations are, Arthur, and your dreams, if you wanted to make it all the way to, to play rugby. But obviously it's a bit more common nowadays, which is great, isn't it?

Arthur:

Yeah. Very great. Thank you.

Greig:

Would you like, to play, Arthur? Would you like to be a professional cricket or a rugby player?

Arthur:

my dream is to be a rugby player! Greig, how difficult was it to move between the positions?

Greig:

Yeah, that's a good question. I think It's, it's not easy at times. I think I, I always liked the, challenge of it and it was, it was almost, it was good to, again, coming back to playing different sports, playing different positions. I always enjoyed it'cause it was a real challenge. for myself, and I think, I was very fortunate. I guess I was able to play both nine, and 10 on, a few occasions for Scotland. And, and I played 10 for Edinburgh a little bit as well. yeah, I really, enjoyed it. I think sometimes with nine. the position and all you're doing is really running after the ball and chasing the ball and getting tired and passing. So I think sometimes in that number 10 position, it was, I always liked it. It was a little bit nicer. You had a little bit, more time to, to look around and, try and help the team. So it, was great to play a couple of different positions.

Arthur:

That's very interesting. Thank you. And as you said, you play load of positions. Which position did you enjoy playing the most?

Greig:

I probably actually enjoyed playing number 10 more than I did number nine sometimes. probably'cause the reasons I've just explained. I think you can sometimes, as I said, help the team a little bit more. and, sometimes you just get a little bit more. Time and space, to pick your head up, try and use your vision and, vision was probably one of, one of the good skills, I was able to pick up, over the years. Do you have positions yet, in your team?

Arthur:

Yes, I play. Yeah, we do. And I'm fly half as well.

Greig:

okay. So stick at the fly half, but all the other sports that you're play in, that's really gonna help because. Your vision. so somebody like Finn Smith, Finn Russell, these guys have, they've also got great vision. They can see things very quickly. So in your cricket and your, hockey seeing space, seeing the ball that's gonna help you,

Arthur:

That's very helpful. Thank you. And what was your key strength as a scrum? Half.

Greig:

probably my key strength was. tr trying to do the, probably my decision making, so trying to do the right thing, at the right time. I think I really had to work hard at, developing my game, my passing, my kicking, that probably became a strength of mine as well. I. but I think what I've prided myself on was my real decision making, to really help the team, whether it's to, whether pass, kick, run, whatever that decision is. I, I really try to, make that a real strength of mine through understanding the game.

Arthur:

As you said, you're a good kicker. What was like your favourite kick and that you did the best?

Greig:

yeah, kicking. Always enjoyed kicking, I think, for any, any youngsters, that's a kicker if you can enjoy, what you're doing. I think, eventually I was very lucky. Obviously I got to play, in front of big, full stadiums and a lot of people watching on the tv. But I think if you can not think about that and just keep thinking about the skill and keep enjoying the, skill that'll really help you. coming back to, oh, my favourite kick. Probably, for Edinburgh, rugby actually, we once played, Racing Metro, up, up in Edinburgh. and, from memory, the, game, the final score was I think 48 points to 47, and I was able to kick, when we were on 46, I kicked the conversion to make it 48 points to 47. And, that one kinda sticks in my mind.

Arthur:

That's very interesting. Thank you. What was the hardest part about playing Scrum Half?

Greig:

The hardest part about playing scrum half, I would say. difficult to say the hardest, because you're touching the ball so many times between the 9 and the 10, you probably touched the ball more times than anybody else in a game of rugby. So I guess, that decision making, it comes into the, back into the equation. I think, having good skills because you're touching the ball so many times, you don't obviously wanna make, be making too many errors. So I think, yeah, probably. And also fitness as well. It's probably the hardest thing actually. You gotta be, you probably one of the fittest players on the team. So I think maybe, some people that just, watch rugby on the weekend, maybe don't appreciate a lot of the hard work that goes in behind the scenes. So probably within the number 9 and the number, the fullback 15's, they probably, normally, sometimes depending the game wingers, they clock up the most, meters probably in a, game of rugby. So the fitness is gonna be right up there to be a halfback.

Arthur:

Can you tell us more about that?

Greig:

So what it looks like, or certainly now in the modern day, players go all go through a Bronco test. so that is a test where pretty much all team gets tested, but, it's always good for the nines and, the fifteens, as I said, to probably finish out in front. So you start on the try line, you run to 20 meters back to the try, line out to the 40, back to the try line out to the 60 meters, back to the try line. and that's only one rep. And you gotta do that five times just as quick as you can. and that's basically most teams use that kind of test. So there you go. You can maybe try that. I think you can get your, you and your teammates can try it.

Arthur:

that's what our coach at my club rugby actually introduced a couple weeks ago.

Greig:

Oh, there you go. Can you remember, did you get a time at all?

Arthur:

We all run as a team. we have to do it after every training session, which isn't, the best. What's the best piece of advice a coach has gave you?

Greig:

just be yourself, I think is probably the best, one of the best pieces of, myself, I don't, you pick up a lot of good things over the years, but I think that one of the most important things being true to yourself. and I think if, you had to coach once, just, told me just to be myself, just, play the game that I think's right. I think that's always really stuck in my mind. I really be myself. I always enjoyed the game of rugby, and so that's something I, really tried to keep doing. even playing, for Scotland, playing professionally. I think the players that maybe think about it too much and maybe, don't enjoy it, they're the ones that maybe don't play the best. So if you can really be yourself, enjoy the game, I think it goes a long way to really helping you become the best player you can, become.

Arthur:

thank you. And what rituals did you have before a game?

Greig:

I never had too many rituals before the game. I was always to just try and relax. yeah, just relax. Take my time, go through my routine. I was always, one of the, one of the first ones out there because of my goal kicking. So I'd go out probably before the team end up doing a little bit of goal kicking and yeah, just try and relax. Not, don't think too much.

Arthur:

Did you have any headphones on whilst you were goal kicking or listen to any music?

Greig:

You've been watching Finn Russell too much? no. I never, and nah, I never, I was a big, I was always a big believer and I, couldn't wear headphones in, the game of rugby. So I, like to really try and keep as many things the same as I could. So get out there. Imagine, that first kick of the game, really trying to visualize that first kick of the game in, my warmup preparation and, yeah, and just be ready. So no headphones for me.

Arthur:

that's very helpful. Thank you. You hold the record for the most appearances as captain of the Scotland Men's team, what would you say makes a great captain?

Greig:

I think it's, somebody that leads by example, to be honest, Arthur, I think it's, you don't wanna feel as though you need to talk all the time. especially, young leaders, I believe sometimes fall into the trap of, believing maybe they have to talk all the time and they don't. Sometimes it's good to step back, allow other people to, to lead as well. And then again, it just comes back to what we talked about before a little bit, If you could, when I was captain, if I could just be myself, keep enjoying the game, and then the best version of myself would follow and, ultimately that makes me the best captain I can be as well. yeah, just, yeah, lead by example. Just be yourself.

Arthur:

Thank you. And were there any mantras that you lived by?

Greig:

my preparation was really key to me. in, in terms of, I didn't want to go into any game, an international game, any club game feel feeling unprepared. I. So that, that was probably one of the, one of the key things for me is if I felt I'd done, enough work, in the week, I'd done all my, video analysis, all that stuff, all my preparation going into the game, that was the only really thing that I lived by. And then after that comes back to, I gave myself self confidence by, by being prepared. and then again, because I was self-confident, because I knew I'd done all the preparation work and I knew I couldn't have done anything else, to prepare myself for that game, so I knew I was ready and then I'd just go out there and enjoy it.

Arthur:

Thank you, and you played in some great teams, which was the best team you played in, and what made them great.

Greig:

I did, I was very fortunate, Arthur, as you say, I played in some great teams. I think any great team I think really understands the, common goal. So obviously that common goal is, to win on the weekend or to win a championship or, whatever that is. So I played in, a few really good Scotland teams. the Lions team that I was part of in 2017. it was a great team, as well. I think there's so many great players, and it's, great, isn't it? I think different characters as well are celebrated within the teams. so that's what I liked about it. But I think what makes a really great team is everybody understands the common goal, and why you're doing it. A lot of the times people lose why they're doing it. And, I think that's one of the key things is everybody understands their why and the team's why? Because, I was at Clermont, down in France for a few years, for 3 seasons. The second season I was in Clermont we had a great year. We made two finals. We made the European Challenge Cup final and the top 14 final. sadly we were, beaten in the top 14 final, but we, managed to win the European, challenge cup, thankfully. and I think that season it was really clear. Everybody was really, you could just tell everybody was really determined and they're on the same page. So I think that what, that's what helps make a great team. There's, many factors.

Arthur:

What a great trophy to win.

Greig:

I would've liked to have won the top 14 as well after. I'm not gonna lie to you, but you can't win them all.

Arthur:

Yeah, exactly. How did you, bounce back after a bad game?

Greig:

you can't be, you can't be upset at yourself, for too long. That's probably something where I wasn't very good. I was very, passionate and I always wanted to obviously do well, like most people. But I think that's something, I probably held onto for too long because you are gonna have a poor performance. sometimes it, it is just gonna happen, we're, all human beings and that's just part of life. yeah. It's just part of life. So I think how I got to a point where, I was able to say just that acceptance. I've had a poor game, sometimes there's a reason, sometimes there's not. You just make a mistake or, and then you end up, you're losing a bit of confidence or you just go back to the, training field. Really Arthur just as quickly as you can focus on the next job is, was always something I tried to, talk about. if you have a poor game on Saturday, the next games come on the following Saturday. You just get your vision and your mind and your thoughts. The next game and, think about that one because you know what's just went past you. The game that's just been played will, never ever be played again. And, thinking about it and beating yourself up about it is, not gonna help you perform better in the next game.

Arthur:

That's very helpful. Thank you. And how did the level step up between club and country?

Greig:

I think everything, the best way to describe that maybe is everything just probably happens a little bit quicker. everybody's maybe got a little bit better skills, and that's collectively, obviously in the club game, there's great players as well, but I think it just steps up a level so that, maybe the, I'm getting, the scrums will be slightly tougher. the line outs will be slightly quicker. Movement, for example, there'll be quicker players on average across the field. So everything's just happened that little bit quicker that little bit faster. You have to think quicker. You gotta be, you gotta be one of the players that's actually making it, quicker to, be able to, survive in that. But it's, a great experience. and, hopefully all your young boys and girls hopefully watching this podcast, are gonna be able to experience in our national rugby one day if you, stick in and, make it to the top.

Arthur:

Thank you. What was the biggest challenge you faced as a rugby player?

Greig:

I never, I wasn't selected for, I was training with the Scotland squad in 2011, I think it was before, the Rugby World Cup. I was in the extended squad. and I wasn't selected, to go to the rugby that Rugby World Cup. and I was very disappointed and I was a little bit younger then, and I think that was a point in my career that I felt I could either not quite give up, but I could either just sit and be comfortable and, be a professional and. And get paid or I could say, I'm gonna prove some people wrong and really try and push on and certainly make it to the next World Cup. And, fortunately for myself, I was able to do that. so there, there'll be setbacks along the way, for everybody. some will be bigger than others, but I think that's, it won't be success certainly in rugby and professional rugby, it won't be in a straight line. It won't go from A to B, for most people, Arthur. So it's, a great lesson that, your journey might go this way, that way, But if you, strong enough in your mind and you truly believe in yourself, you can achieve what you want to achieve.

Arthur:

Wow, that's very interesting. Thank you. As a scrum half, what other position on the rugby pitch did you rely the most?

Greig:

Probably the whole forward pack, to be honest. So if the forward pack can, give you some, nice ball, whether that's, cleaniruckscks or, good scrums, good, line outs, stuff like that. I think in terms of communication wise, probably the number 10 was very important. But I think first and foremost for, a scrum half if you forward pack, giving you, nice ball. So it's nice and fast. and, modern rugby. Now, it's, not maybe just the forwards, obviously people cleaning rucks, but I'll still stick with the forwards mate. So if you can look after any of the young half backs, or if you can look after the forwards, buy'em a few drinks, few coffees here and there. It'll go a long way.

Arthur:

I will thank you. When you are a part of the Scotland squad, how did you handle competing for your position?

Greig:

Yeah, I think again, I maybe I wasn't very good at this. when I was a little bit younger, I think I, I was so focused, on, my place that I think, sometimes that maybe didn't help the team. at times, if I wasn't selected, maybe, I was a bit upset and, sometimes potentially. You know that didn't actually help the team at times. So I think it's great to be competitive and you definitely need that, in international rugby. But I think sometimes, if you're not selected, does your actions or do your actions still help the team, in the lead up to the game. So I just having honest conversations as well with the coach. is a key thing to do around that selection Arthur as well is just, go on. And if you're not selected, go and asking why and saying, okay, if that's the reason why, then you know, I'm gonna work on this. yeah, it's, but being competitive is something you have to have, in international rugby. So I, very much encourage that competitive side.

Arthur:

Wow. That's very helpful. Thank you. And what wisdom do you have now that you wished you had when you started out in the game?

Greig:

Oh yeah, I was quite, I guess when I first came into the Scotland team and stuff, I was probably, I. Probably too emotional a little bit in terms of, I sometimes got caught up, certainly in my younger, days. As I said when I came into the Scotland around, oh, I'm playing for Scotland and we've gotta get real emotive and, get up for this game where sometimes you have to have emotion. I think you do anyway, but you have to use it at the right times and in the right ways because sometimes. you're, you can almost blind yourself a little bit in terms of when you're on that rugby field, you maybe start making poor decisions because your head space isn't that calm state of mind. So yeah, that's definitely something I learned over the years and it's something that, that really helped me to be nice and clear in my thoughts and calm. and using emotion, at the right times was a real key learning for me, over the years. Arthur, that's a good question.

Arthur:

How would you control your emotions?

Greig:

I was able to, or I was very lucky, I guess I was, given help, by, a lot of people, from different fields. in terms of, the military, I was able to speak to people in the military around, how they control their emotions, mental skills coaches, stuff like that. I really enjoyed all that stuff, and because I was a goal kicker as well, I think I had to learn to do that pretty quickly. also in evidence, based around process. So especially goal kicking. If you were putting the ball on that, tee, if I was in Murrayfield Stadium, for example, and there's 70,000 people, making noise and, chanting some or some of'em cheering for you, some of'em are maybe not cheering for you. but if I start to worry about the crowd, if I start to worry about that external noise and pressure, or, perceived pressure, because it's really just the perception, pressure. then maybe I'm gonna miss that kick. If, I just worry about my process, think about my skill, if I can stay, present within the game of rugby. if I, again, to use as an example, if, I'm in Murrayfield Stadium, if I'm, really clear in my mind, if I can look up and I can see the. The clock, the 32 minutes played, okay, the 32 minutes played. This is the score line. what's my next job? And be really clear. Then just be present around being a really good, rugby player.

Arthur:

Thank you. And, what was, what do you miss most about playing rugby?

Greig:

Yeah, that's, I think I missed the changing room probably Arthur, in terms of the, the, I'm sure you guys, at your club at the moment, I'm sure you have a bit of fun and some laughs and, stuff like that, which I hope you do. I think that's what anybody will miss the most. It's because it's funny because when you become a professional rugby player, That environment pretty much becomes your life really, because you do it most days. so it, it can become a bit of a shock, when you come out the other side and you don't have that network, round about you. So it's, important to, I'm very fortunate, I've got a beautiful wife and three, three young kids, three young boys Arthur, that keep me very busy. So I've got other things to worry about, which is great. But, definitely the changing room, would be what, I would miss the most.

Arthur:

Do your kids play rugby?

Greig:

Yeah, they do. My, my two big boys do anyway. I've got, my oldest, he's 10 and nearly 11, so they play, Rudy, he's called Rocko, they both play there 10 and eight. So they both play in Japan, we're currently still over in Japan. but my little man's only little Max is only two. So I'm sure watching his brothers mate, he'll be, the next one to start playing the game as well.

Arthur:

Wow, thank you. And how did you cope with your nerves before a game, and what kind of techniques did you use?

Greig:

I think that's probably coming back to a little bit of that, that mental skills, stuff that, that we touched on. and probably also that preparation. I guess as well if you feel really prepared, and really you need to try and again, it's like goal kicking and stuff, the human brain tell, if you were a goal kicker, the first thing the human brain will tell you is don't miss. And that's the last thing you need, to be thinking about. So you're having a real, positive mindset, around you going and, playing the game. look forward to the challenge. So if you are in the tunnel and, a big test match, you gotta be looking forward to that challenge. You don't want to be thinking, oh, I don't wanna run on this field. what if I make a mistake or something like that? I think you. You trust your process, trust your preparation. Don't worry about making mistakes. And if you can do that, you can control your, real, a real positive mindset, for yourself. That's the key.

Arthur:

Thank you. And what legacy do you feel you have left in the game from playing your rugby days?

Greig:

I'd always just try to be the, best version of myself, Arthur, that was what I was all about. I think I was always willing to, to give my time, especially to young players, to really help'em, so hopefully my legacy around the players, the clubs I've been involved with is a real positive one. And I always try to make any environment I, I went into, are, definitely try to make it better. I can feel real confident, about saying things like that. I tried my hardest, but that's all you can do at the end of the day, mate, is try your hardest, have fun, try and take people along with you as well. if you can encourage, if you've got great behaviors, if you can encourage a few other teammates to do the same. I think that's a great lesson. And because the more people you have with, excellent behaviors, then the chances are the environment that, that you're in or you're creating is gonna be a better one. Yeah, it's hopefully young fellas, young boys and girls these days set of great environments and really enjoy it and help each other.

Arthur:

Wow. That's very interesting. Thank you. So Greig, what was your favourite match you've ever played in?

Greig:

maybe, Arthur was when we won the Calcutta cup 2018. Yeah, sorry about that. But we, beat England. Scotland, be England that day. It's probably my favourite one.

Arthur:

why was it your favourite?

Greig:

we hadn't beaten England for a long time. and I think we played really well that day. Up, in Scotland, up in Murrayfield. So yeah, that was probably why.

Arthur:

what's your favourite trophy you've ever won since you've won quite a lot?

Greig:

yeah, Calcutta Cup, that's a great trophy to win when you play against England. It was great to win a trophy with Clermont sadly, as I said, it wasn't the top 14. We won the challenge cup. also won the challenge cup with Gloucester.

Arthur:

Thank you. And who was your favourite player growing up?

Greig:

My favourite player growing up was, was George Gregan actually, Australian player, used to play halfback, for Australia. Excellent player. he was like, he was, quite small. I. That's maybe what, attracted, me to, to watching him. And, but he was, really a really smart player. and he was coming through and playing for Australia when I was starting to, watch the, Tri-Nations as it was back then. So he was a, he was my favourite player when I was growing up.

Arthur:

And what was your favourite try or conversion?

Greig:

I scored a try for Scotland against, Samoa in the 2015 World Cup up in Newcastle. and maybe thinking back maybe that was probably my favourite try was the game was probably a bit closer than that, than we would've hoped that day, but we probably never played our best game. But yeah, I was able to score there and really help the team. And yeah, that was probably the one that sticks in my mind.

Arthur:

Thank you and thanks so much for being on my podcast. I really appreciate it. And. Who of your rugby mates would you say would be great on my podcast?

Greig:

If you could get hold of Finn Russell, Finn would be good.

Arthur:

And thanks so much, I really appreciate taking your time to be on my podcast. Thank you.

Greig:

No problem. Pleasure, mate.